Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry not to have been here since yesterday, but I have been following the thread with interest from my phone, so I'll do my best to catch up.
My responses, sorry are mainly aimed at you Vizio with a little help from Daylux's quote here, which is basically where I left off. Not trying to pick on you but I'd like to do my best to answer your question:
Tell that to the courts. Might as well just let all the serial killers free then since none of us are qualified to judge.
I take it from this you mean I, as a none believer in Jesus, will be going to hell right?
Right I will try to answer your ... question.
Seems to me from what I read here that apart from your objection that neither Sam Harris or any of us have the nerve to attempt to judge god, actually you agree with everything else Sam Harris said. I have paraphrased a few of his quotes here below in purple:
I for example, no matter how good I am or how well I live my life, because I am an atheist, I am actually a child of the devil.
"no matter how good these people are they are doomed..../they will be tortured in hell for all eternity."
Yet you exonerated Hilter as long as he was willing to ask for forgiveness. Actually you didn't even mention asking for forgiveness but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that was what you meant.
"On the other hand your run of the mill serial killer.../ need only come to god, come to Jesus on death row../ and is going to spend and eternity in heaven."
The rest of your quotes appear to agree with this:
"god is not bound by moral duties, god doesn't have to be good, whatever he commands is good.. /this behaviour becomes intrinsically good because he commanded it."
Or to simplify "God is mysterious".
You would agree with all of that right? That appears to be what you are saying.
To answer your question "How do any of us have the nerve to judge god?"
Well you seem to be missing something. Sam Harris is an atheist.
He is not judging god. He is judging a system of morality based on a mythical god.
When he talks about god he is speaking metaphorically about a mythical god on which a system is based, not a real god.
A system that actually when it comes down to it has no morality at all.
This is a system that claims to tell you to live a good life, (don't covet your neighbours wife or ox, or something, stuff like that) but in fact has a built in get-out-clause.
The get-out-clause actually means that in fact you can live your life any way you want. From lying, cheating and stealing right through to being a mass murderer of millions - as long as you seek forgiveness before you die you are exonerated from everything.
Whereas I'm doomed to hell, no matter how good I live my life, for no other reason than I'm an atheist.
Some system
I have the nerve to judge your imaginary god Vizio because I think your version, if you believe all of that is no moral system at all.
What I'm asking is by what standard do you think your system of morality, or Sam's system, or anyone's system is good enough to judge anyone else? If your system is your opinion only, you have no ability to condemn anyone else.
What I'm asking is by what standard do you think your system of morality, or Sam's system, or anyone's system is good enough to judge anyone else? If your system is your opinion only, you have no ability to condemn anyone else.
Is yours? Sam Harris is not judging anyone...He is judging destructive beliefs. Who gave you the right to judge Sam Harris?
12-05-2013, 01:00 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
What I'm asking is by what standard do you think your system of morality, or Sam's system, or anyone's system is good enough to judge anyone else? If your system is your opinion only, you have no ability to condemn anyone else.
What I'm asking is by what standard do you think your system of morality, or Sam's system, or anyone's system is good enough to judge anyone else? If your system is your opinion only, you have no ability to condemn anyone else.
Because my system, which is based on empathy (not hurting others / thinking of others / kindness etc),
is better than your imaginary gods system that gives free reign to serial killers and is a free-for-all to act or behave in any way you want, or do whatever the heck you like, and as long you ask for forgiveness afterwards, it will all be absolutely fine and in fact you will be rewarded for it.
Your imaginary god's system is akin to the worst parenting system imaginable.
Because my system, which is based on empathy (not hurting others / thinking of others / kindness etc),
is better than your imaginary gods system that gives free reign to serial killers and is a free-for-all to act or behave in any way you want, or do whatever the heck you like, and as long you ask for forgiveness afterwards, it will all be absolutely fine and in fact you will be rewarded for it.
Your imaginary god's system is akin to the worst parenting system imaginable.
For the reasons I just said.
Are you telling me that you think yours is better?
I hope you don't have kids.
12-05-2013, 01:11 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
How do you know your system is best?
Here you go again asking an epistemological question yet you have done nothing to answer those same questions that have been asked of you.
12-05-2013, 01:12 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Because my system, which is based on empathy (not hurting others / thinking of others / kindness etc),
is better than your imaginary gods system that gives free reign to serial killers and is a free-for-all to act or behave in any way you want, or do whatever the heck you like, and as long you ask for forgiveness afterwards, it will all be absolutely fine and in fact you will be rewarded for it.
Your imaginary god's system is akin to the worst parenting system imaginable.
Our system is also better because it is not based on mere assertion of authority - Might is Right.
Here you go again asking an epistemological question yet you have done nothing to answer those same questions that have been asked of you.
I'm not the one that started a thread claiming to be able to judge God. I'm only asking those that side with the OP how they can come to the position they hold.
Here you go again asking an epistemological question yet you have done nothing to answer those same questions that have been asked of you.
It's obvious he's not going to.
He's got a track record of ducking, weaving and side stepping that would make a junior lightweight in the ring with Ali jealous.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
