Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think most Christians believe the "Church of the Holy Sepulcher" is built on the site of the tomb Jesus(as) was buried in. This is often used used as evidence the "Empty tomb" exists and verifies that Jesus(as) was buried and Rose from the dead.
The Church was not always there.
Would someone explain to when the Church was built and how it was determined it was the site of the Tomb?
Without evidence of the tomb, much of the evidence that Jesus(as) was buried is lost.
The arguments about Christians must have a Christ has a point. But it is well observed by Grandstander that, if Christianity is true, non - christian religions must be false. And yet millions believe them. If so, millions could believe false claims of Christianity too. And be willing to die for them. Millions have died for lies, and will kill for them, too.
While many have died believing a lie, why would the Apostles be willing to die for something they knew was a lie?
A fool will die for a lie that he or she believes to be true. Ya gotta be pretty stupid to die for something you knew was a lie.
While many have died believing a lie, why would the Apostles be willing to die for something they knew was a lie?
A fool will die for a lie that he or she believes to be true. Ya gotta be pretty stupid to die for something you knew was a lie.
There is no proof that the Apostles even existed, much less that they died for their beliefs.
While it is true the Romans under Nero did persecute Christians, there is no evidence any of them ever saw Jesus(as).
While I firmly believe Jesus(does exist and is currently in Heaven. I can find no physical evidence of the biblical accounts. There is no evidence of who the Apostles were and where or how they died.
I want to thank both of you for your faith building posts.
Which "earliest Gospels" would they be? Matthew? Mark? Luke? John?
I guess written eyewitness documentation doesn't cut it for you.
Last i'd heard, the earliest "Marks" found, the earliest written Gospels, they match perfectly only with the middle of the "gospels on Jesus" story. Started with his ministry as an adult trying to fit the Messiahship qualifications from the Hebrew Prophets and ended with a missing body after his crusifiction for undenied political insurrection, after a lot of being a fugitive and insulting many people, converting and aligning with just as many.
I've been an eye witness and have later had to recant because I had biased what I remembered a bit to favor what I had originally thought my plan was going to be, but then remembered things didn't go as planed once the emotion died down. Never did I see a miracle and/or magic and disbelieve it happened, selling the magic man for a few coins and denying my association with that kind of power.
While many have died believing a lie, why would the Apostles be willing to die for something they knew was a lie?
A fool will die for a lie that he or she believes to be true. Ya gotta be pretty stupid to die for something you knew was a lie.
Haven't I already answered this? The disciples did not believe that Jesus got up and walked, because he didn't. It was a claim added later on by the early Christians because a spiritual resurrection would not do - Jesus in solid form had to be seen walking about, and so three contradictory gospel resurrection accounts were invented.
The disciples never heard any of them so did not believe that lie, nor did they die for it, however they died. later Christians, who did believe the lie, did die, in droves, for that lie.
Haven't I already answered this? The disciples did not believe that Jesus got up and walked, because he didn't. It was a claim added later on by the early Christians because a spiritual resurrection would not do - Jesus in solid form had to be seen walking about, and so three contradictory gospel resurrection accounts were invented.
The disciples never heard any of them so did not believe that lie, nor did they die for it, however they died. later Christians, who did believe the lie, did die, in droves, for that lie.
If I recall correctly the charges weren't "you believed Jesus" but instead were "you are a horrendous trouble maker for us, and that blaspheme and heresy calls for death in my religious law code."
Do you Mr5150, think people who lie must say the truth even though they will be put to death anyway for their history and actions? Why give your political/sociall enemies the benefit of the truth that you were working for a lie if you would still died (either socially or physically) whether you agree it had been an evil and sinister lie that you deserve dying for anyway. No one ever says, "you are forgiven because you confessed to the murder you had deliberately attempted to hide." lay people (specially in ancient days) would call for even harsher punishments to confessed or undenying criminals, since they would surely be more guilty than someone who denied the charges and so might have been innocent.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 12-10-2013 at 12:15 PM..
There is no proof that the Apostles even existed, much less that they died for their beliefs.
While it is true the Romans under Nero did persecute Christians, there is no evidence any of them ever saw Jesus(as).
While I firmly believe Jesus(does exist and is currently in Heaven. I can find no physical evidence of the biblical accounts. There is no evidence of who the Apostles were and where or how they died.
The Apostles are mentioned in the Qur'an. but none are named nor are any writings by them mentioned.
The Authors in the Bible were anonymous. They were not given names until after the second century and none were named in the bible until after the 4th Century.
Yes, Jesus(as) did have Apostles, but we do not know who they were or anything about what happened to them.
Yes, I believe the apostles did exist, but I do not know of any physical evidence of them.
The Apostles are mentioned in the Qur'an. but none are named nor are any writings by them mentioned.
The Authors in the Bible were anonymous. They were not given names until after the second century and none were named in the bible until after the 4th Century.
Yes, Jesus(as) did have Apostles, but we do not know who they were or anything about what happened to them.
Yes, I believe the apostles did exist, but I do not know of any physical evidence of them.
I believe the Catholic Church has the bones of saint peter and they date to around the right time.
I believe the Catholic Church has the bones of saint peter and they date to around the right time.
The only problem is every Catholic Church named after Peter has a fragment of Bone attributed to Peter embedded in the Alter. Judging by the number of Fragments Rome has sent to be embedded in alters, Peter must have been quite a large man to have furnished all these bone fragments.
Historically there is no physical evidence Peter died in Rome. Nothing in the bible indicates he died in Rome. This seems to have been an afterthought that resulted from the "Great Schism" to give creditability to the Papacy.
Quote:
On the basis of the New Testament account, it would have been very possible for Peter to write his epistle from the city or province of Babylon itself. His ministry was to the Jews, and, as writings from subsequent centuries establish, Babylon was a center of Judaism both before and long after Peter.
Certainly that would be a more fitting solution to his whereabouts than the alternative—that Paul neglected to address Peter in his epistle to the church in Rome, and that Luke failed to note Peter’s presence there when he and Paul arrived as a result of Paul’s appeal to Caesar (Acts 28), ostensibly around 60 C.E. The internal evidence of the epistle to the Romans, written around 57 C.E., establishes that Paul had no knowledge of any apostle, least of all Peter, having preceded him to Rome. As the Waldensians noted, the New Testament’s silence on the subject is deafening.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The disciples did not believe that Jesus got up and walked, because he didn't. It was a claim added later on by the early Christians because a spiritual resurrection would not do - Jesus in solid form had to be seen walking about, and so three contradictory gospel resurrection accounts were invented. 
