U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-11-2013, 09:02 PM
 
670 posts, read 645,817 times
Reputation: 138

Advertisements

Ask any one who has ever been tortured if they would wish such a thing upon one some one else and most sane people will say no.

Torture is an inhumane evil one that should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

It is believed by many that gods love and mercy is beyond that of human ability to love or have mercy,
it can therefore be inferred that god who is eternally merciful and loving would not do any thing the most merciful and loving of people would do being as god would be more merciful and loving still.

Therefore since many of us would not ever resort to torture it can be logically assumed that god would never use it either.

In fact the endorsement of such a thing is essentially the acceptance of torture being used on others,
this is in reality is a heresy that goes against the very nature of a good god.

I therefore find it a sin to wish ill of others, and the Doctrine of Eternal Hell-Fire is the ultimate form of wishing harm on others. Many actually take joy and mock people whom they feel deserve such a terrible fate and that is a grave sin to give into.

Some may then say, "A righteous god will have a need to demand justice"
Justice can be brought forth in ways more civil than torture.
In my beliefs there exists Karma: "We reap what we sow."
As well as Reincarnation, to be precise most reincarnate and carry over the Karma of their past lives and ancestors, while some those who have become Saints move onto paradise, yet there are cases where after several lifetimes of sin a soul becomes too corrupted by evil, the soul had many chances to repent but at the end of the final life it will cease to exist hurled into a realm called the Void from which nothing not even light escapes, it is there in that endless chasm of separation from god that the soul loses it's fuel for it's fire and it burns it's self out. So you see there is justice carried out, but with mercy justice is carried out over the course of several lifetimes of chances to redeem ones self. That gives no excuse for reckless sinning however, each sin one commits corrupts their soul further, this is why spiritual practices such as inner reflection and meditation are so important in our walk moving forward toward god.

What are your thoughts about Eternal Hell-Fire or my beliefs stated above?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-11-2013, 09:22 PM
Status: "Schooling Fundie." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,726 posts, read 12,253,723 times
Reputation: 10741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17 View Post
...snip...

What are your thoughts about Eternal Hell-Fire or my beliefs stated above?

Well, eternal hellfire is a wet dream for fundamentalists but that's the extent of its reality.

It really doesn't merit any consideration.

One read-through gives me the impression your beliefs are fragmented but you seem intent upon knitting them into some cohesive whole.

I wish you well in that endeavour.

The concept of karma is one which certainly resonates with me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2013, 11:15 PM
 
132 posts, read 187,437 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned response

in regards to the original poster,
look for a story called "moment of truth" by gerry levinson

and back to you trout dude, do you still doubt me?

Last edited by june 7th; 12-12-2013 at 05:47 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Denver
3,017 posts, read 2,433,304 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17 View Post
Ask any one who has ever been tortured if they would wish such a thing upon one some one else and most sane people will say no.

Torture is an inhumane evil one that should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

It is believed by many that gods love and mercy is beyond that of human ability to love or have mercy,
it can therefore be inferred that god who is eternally merciful and loving would not do any thing the most merciful and loving of people would do being as god would be more merciful and loving still.

Therefore since many of us would not ever resort to torture it can be logically assumed that god would never use it either.

In fact the endorsement of such a thing is essentially the acceptance of torture being used on others,
this is in reality is a heresy that goes against the very nature of a good god.

I therefore find it a sin to wish ill of others, and the Doctrine of Eternal Hell-Fire is the ultimate form of wishing harm on others. Many actually take joy and mock people whom they feel deserve such a terrible fate and that is a grave sin to give into.

Some may then say, "A righteous god will have a need to demand justice"
Justice can be brought forth in ways more civil than torture.
In my beliefs there exists Karma: "We reap what we sow."
As well as Reincarnation, to be precise most reincarnate and carry over the Karma of their past lives and ancestors, while some those who have become Saints move onto paradise, yet there are cases where after several lifetimes of sin a soul becomes too corrupted by evil, the soul had many chances to repent but at the end of the final life it will cease to exist hurled into a realm called the Void from which nothing not even light escapes, it is there in that endless chasm of separation from god that the soul loses it's fuel for it's fire and it burns it's self out. So you see there is justice carried out, but with mercy justice is carried out over the course of several lifetimes of chances to redeem ones self. That gives no excuse for reckless sinning however, each sin one commits corrupts their soul further, this is why spiritual practices such as inner reflection and meditation are so important in our walk moving forward toward god.

What are your thoughts about Eternal Hell-Fire or my beliefs stated above?
Well just like any time you think about religion, you have to consider every aspect. It could be that God is lying to us that he really is a loving being and wants to send quite a few of us to hell for messing up. If that's the case though, I say screw god. There's not much you can do to earn a whimsical god's favor.

I totally agree with you though. The only way in which hell could be justified is if it was a growing, learning, noneternal process for those who are sent there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 12:29 AM
 
6,267 posts, read 9,579,472 times
Reputation: 7556
Nope. Try again. Nobody is sent anywhere. When you die who you belong to will come for your soul. Period. You made the choice while in your body. God and satan know what that choice is. Regardless of if you acknowledge it or not. Good luck to ya.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 06:13 AM
 
8,881 posts, read 12,000,507 times
Reputation: 3161
It has also been described as "outer darkness." I have heard that all people will be sustained in their new physical bodies after the 2nd coming of Christ. But those who reject God will exist without His fellowship.

I don't know what is so difficult to believe. Even science itself denies the possibility of things creating and progressing from nothing. Science states that all things tend to naturally degrade, yet so many "science" believers deny God. Why is that? How did anything get created at such an advanced state, if their only possible action is to fall and degrade?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: california
5,494 posts, read 4,605,339 times
Reputation: 6434
Why should it bother you, that people will be confined with all the rest of the fallen, whom rebel against God?
There is no reason God should allow the rebellious in heaven , with those that love Him.
Even you wouldn't bring an aggressive criminal into your home to live with you and your children .(unless of course you are of that nature your self).
First of all , there are no liars allowed in heaven, nor would one be comfortable to begin with . God knows the heart, your thoughts, before you speak.
Jesus said," Satan is a liar and the father of it".
His rebellion got him thrown out of heaven aggressively.
This lying issue is particular to false teachers, twisting God's word to fit their own agenda.
So you will be seeing quite a number of religious folks and educators there in hell as well ,not to mention those that deliberately misquote , trying to support their rebellion.
No one, not even a large volume of people, are going to have a vote in changing God's methods, whether you like them or not.
If you build something, it remains with in your power, to do with it as you please.
God , being creator, of everything, has the right do do exactly as He has chosen.
I respect God because He deserves it, I love God because He is my friend.
Jesus makes that possible, both because I embrace His sacrifice for me, I want His Lordship(govern) in my daily life .
And because He provided the Holy Spirit to teach me and guide me in God's will, so that I can be obedient to Him like I want to be.
Whom ever you've chosen master in your life , even if it's self , you will share the same consequences eternally.
So far as hell goes The old testament says hell is expanding . and Jesus taught about hell quite a bit as well.
It is not modern religious invention.

When I was young, raised in church I was also taught to challenge things men taught ( dad taught me that).
Eventually I realized that, If I was foolish enough to accept second hand information, I wasn't serious about knowing or doing God's will.
I was learning scriptures to fit my own agenda, much like all the different religions were doing.
When I realized how stupid that was, I realized that I was going to have to give account to God on my own, none of those other teachers would be there to make excuses for me or for their false information I embraced, and by furthering false information I was under the same judgment false teachers share.
Through a great deal of prayer and soul searching, I realized that I needed to maintain my interest in the things Jesus taught over any other man on earth . PERIOD.
Jesus said that he would provide the Holy Spirit to teach in His place .
That's what I wanted .
Nothing like going to the source .
Jesus said, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled".
Righteousness is obedience, by His Govern.
The shift in me was a desperate choosing to need His instruction specifically.
And from then on ,my life and my understanding, have been opened up, and see things more on eternal basis ,a much bigger picture .
As for the innocent , God knows whom they are, and He knows our potential as well .
The proof in one's choosing, is how they take action concerning it.
One's response from God, can be relevant to the time and energy one has spent resisting God, so ones desperation to know God is built on His observation .
This is true as well among those that call them selves believers, because even they can become complacent, taking God for granted.

Though God and science, do not agree, man still cannot do what God does .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,619 posts, read 2,915,586 times
Reputation: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
I don't know what is so difficult to believe.
Because there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

It would be great if all our "why's" had answers. However, they don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,619 posts, read 2,915,586 times
Reputation: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There is no reason God should allow the rebellious in heaven , with those that love Him.
Even you wouldn't bring an aggressive criminal into your home to live with you and your children .(unless of course you are of that nature your self).
First of all , there are no liars allowed in heaven, nor would one be comfortable to begin with . G
This works on the assumption that Christians are not rebellious, criminals, or liars. Yet there is no evidence to suggest that non-Christians commit these "sins" at a greater rate than Christians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,997 posts, read 8,582,989 times
Reputation: 11919
Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
This works on the assumption that Christians are not rebellious, criminals, or liars. Yet there is no evidence to suggest that non-Christians commit these "sins" at a greater rate than Christians.
Ah! but Christians, who trust in the sacrifice of Jesus have their sins erased and are right before God! See John chapter three in the New Testament
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top