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Old 05-15-2019, 05:10 PM
 
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I don't respect dogma. I don't go along with 'This is what we teach; you must accept it'. And I don't care for denunciations of heresy, excommunication or telling other people they are not Christians.

I go back to the start and ask 'What are they actually saying?' And if at the end something is being declared by this or that church and denomination that isn't in there, i ask: 'Where did that come from?'

Well, i would be told: 'It's in the gospels'. Or Acts, perhaps. That's why the question of whether or not the gospels are really correct in how they depict Jesus and his teaching is correct and reliable or not is basic.

To me the question of whether the resurrection is believable is fundamental. Paul was right; if that isn't true, Christianity has nothing.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:27 PM
 
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It's really not about dogma. I didn't used to understand that. But anyone who prays to God and wants to be a Christian, is one as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
To me the question of whether the resurrection is believable is fundamental. Paul was right; if that isn't true, Christianity has nothing.
Just because our ancient ancestors were terrified by Spirits and would only accept a physical resurrection is no reason to reject the rebirth as Spirit Jesus promised to Nicodemus and demonstrated to the Apostles by just appearing through closed doors.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Just because our ancient ancestors were terrified by Spirits and would only accept a physical resurrection is no reason to reject the rebirth as Spirit Jesus promised to Nicodemus and demonstrated to the Apostles by just appearing through closed doors.
You are correct. That is not a good reason to reject the rebirth of Jesus Christ.

A very good reason to reject it is the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that anything of the sort ever happened. There is no need to accept bad reasons when we have very good ones.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
You are correct. That is not a good reason to reject the rebirth of Jesus Christ.

A very good reason to reject it is the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that anything of the sort ever happened. There is no need to accept bad reasons when we have very good ones.
It's the physical resurrection after death that skews the whole Christianity story into never-never-land.

If religionists would espouse a spiritual resurrection/ongoing connection post-physical death, they'd sell even more tickets and fill more pews.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
It's the physical resurrection after death that skews the whole Christianity story into never-never-land.
If religionists would espouse a spiritual resurrection/ongoing connection post-physical death, they'd sell even more tickets and fill more pews.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,697 posts, read 8,236,767 times
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
It's the physical resurrection after death that skews the whole Christianity story into never-never-land.

If religionists would espouse a spiritual resurrection/ongoing connection post-physical death, they'd sell even more tickets and fill more pews.
I am not too sure about that.

Harold Camping comes to mind. He predicted the rapture in 1994 or so, and again in 2011 or so. When everybody woke up the next morning, he restated to say that the rapture had occurred, but it had been a spiritual, not physical, rapture.

Nobody believed him.

Some Christian preachers talk about spiritual fights with demons, and that same group of people tend to be viewed as fringe have a relatively small number of adherents, while the vast majority of theists chuckle uncomfortably and change the topic when the subject comes up.

I have a friend who is a very devout Christian, he really believes that everything good that comes his way is a conscious, directed, personal blessing from god. He also believes that when he dies he will be physically resurrected and live in a mansion an$ the streets will be paved with bricks of gold.

People have a very strong affinity for the physical, and removing those identifiable aspects from the god-stories is likely to result in fewer followers, not more.

All in my opinion of course.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:59 AM
 
10,274 posts, read 12,592,937 times
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
It's the physical resurrection after death that skews the whole Christianity story into never-never-land.

If religionists would espouse a spiritual resurrection/ongoing connection post-physical death, they'd sell even more tickets and fill more pews.
The reason for Christianity's large numbers has been because of the spiritual resurrection which some of the believers have already experienced. And which others have witnessed and are interested in learning more about.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,085 posts, read 10,213,578 times
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The reason for Christianity's large numbers has been because of the spiritual resurrection which some of the believers have already experienced. And which others have witnessed and are interested in learning more about.
No. The reason for Christianity's large numbers is the past practice of giving people the choice of conversion to the faith... or death.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:43 AM
 
3,474 posts, read 4,893,719 times
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Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede View Post
Tolstoy thought that "Resist ye not evil," understood literally and absolutely, was the key to Jesus' message. .
I don't understand ? So people are encouraged to commit any kind of evil acts they want? Adultery, fornication, robbery, fraud, murder, drug abuse ?
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