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Old 12-22-2013, 11:01 AM
 
34,593 posts, read 8,914,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
I give your posts consideration. The thing about these eighty well-reasoned posts, is that they were never truly wanted by the one who they were meant for.
They are no longer principally meant for the one to who they were addressed, any more than a debate is intended to persuade the other side in the debate, though one always hopes. It is aimed at the audience.

8.5 thou hits daily, last time I looked. I thank you all for your support.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:04 PM
 
7,310 posts, read 4,681,340 times
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Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Mordant, that is a great question. I hope Daylux answers it clearly.

OK, I will repeat it. I HOPE DAYLUX ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION!!!!!
Saved from judgment through believing in Jesus, he's the covering for our sin.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:06 PM
 
2,250 posts, read 1,275,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Saved from judgment through believing in Jesus, he's the covering for our sin.
So is it possible to be gay, believe in Jesus and be saved from judgment?
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,571,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
If what the Bible says is true, then the answer to your question is yes. It seems that these kinds of people are entirely dependent on somebody telling them what is right and what is wrong. Or they accept that in order to have a "relationship" with God, they must agree with the Boss in order to receive the benefits.
Yup ... of my two brothers who remained in the faith, one (now deceased) had run with the "wrong crowd" as a teen, engaged in some carousing, and transferred his need for belonging to a socially accepted "right crowd". The other one seems to fear a similar "off the rails" experience for himself, probably connected with his hot temper. He has deliberately surrounded himself with the trappings of family and religion and the identity that goes along with that, to keep himself contained and disciplined. I noted back in my fundamentalist days that there was frequently a personal backstory like this to the most ardent and committed believers who were the most avoidant and fearful of anything "outside the box".

It probably helped that our Dad was something of a heroic figure who gave us a lot to live up to, but had a gruff exterior and tended to snap at us when we were a little out of line. It makes a cranky but supposedly ultimately loving heavenly father seem more plausible.

I and my other non-believing brother are much less afraid of our feelings, sexuality, etc., much less prone to think we will succumb to, rather than integrate, our "shadow". I don't know why, probably a roll of the dice of our brain chemistry or something. Maybe that we were the two youngest and our parents had relaxed a bit about raising us. Maybe the way the wind was blowing. Who knows? "There, but for the grace of reason, go I".
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
So is it possible to be gay, believe in Jesus and be saved from judgment?
Yes. Once you acknowledge Jesus as your Savior you're sealed with the holy spirit and spared judgment. A true conversion requires repentance, which is acknowledgment of your sin in the first place and the desire to live free from it.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,564 posts, read 3,136,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Yes. Once you acknowledge Jesus as your Savior you're sealed with the holy spirit and spared judgment. A true conversion requires repentance, which is acknowledgment of your sin in the first place and the desire to live free from it.
And for gays, that's pretty much akin to telling a bird that flying is a sin, so you'll just have to walk.

All the while wondering why in hell God gave you wings.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:48 PM
 
7,310 posts, read 4,681,340 times
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Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
And for gays, that's pretty much akin to telling a bird that flying is a sin, so you'll just have to walk.

All the while wondering why in hell God gave you wings.
If we're talking about physical anatomy and function, you're going to lose that argument.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,564 posts, read 3,136,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
If we're talking about physical anatomy and function, you're going to lose that argument.
Wanna bet?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,571,536 times
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Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Saved from judgment through believing in Jesus, he's the covering for our sin.
Yes ... I get that. You don't personally judge other's spiritual condition, yet you believe it's okay to kick that particular can down the road and let god judge them (and you). This is an artifact of special pleading ... god is a special case because he alone has the moral authority to judge, and yet he has prejudged by simply stating that all will ultimately be maximally and open-endedly punished for the slightest infraction of his ideals -- thus robbing him of the moral authority that would come from considering each case on its merits, in its context, and based on outcomes.

If you believe that god does indeed judge justly, that his justice is not simply different from ours but superior, and therefore has to be far more informed and nuanced relative to our sense of justice, then you are inconsistent IF you also believe in the same fate for all sinners of all stripes.

If you believe, as some Christians do, that all sinners will ultimately be reconciled to god, then at least you are consistent. All penal systems should aim to reform and rehabilitate, ultimately. And so in my view, the only remotely supportable theistic belief about how a benevolent god would legitimately handle sin, is to reconcile all his creation to himself in the end. And that in turn is the only basis I can conceive of, in which I can both refrain from judging others and have no smugness about how someone else is going to judge them.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:20 PM
 
612 posts, read 330,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
he's running around making sure people are shaved properly.
Because 'once shaved, always shaved'.

Sorry ... couldn't resist!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Saved from judgment through believing in Jesus, he's the covering for our sin.
I used to believe all that. Here's the thing, though
is it Jesus himself that's the covering for sin, or
one's belief therein that does the actual saving?




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