Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's really a shame how so many Christians who are brought up to believe this guff have no idea just how nasty this doctrine is and how it undermines any claim to superior morality - or morality of any kind, for that matter.
It's a doctrine that literally convinces its rank-and-file members that average people who have done nothing wrong of any real consequence deserve to be tortured forever - and for what?
Not because they were evil. Not because they committed heinous crimes.
No ... they deserve to be tortured in hell for eternity simply for not joining the right cult. Oh, you're one of THOSE people, well, you deserve to be tortured. Yeah, that's what your brand of Christianity says. And while I'm sure you say it more gently, that IS what you're saying no matter how much sugar you dump onto the words.
That makes you immoral.
No, the argument of, "I'm not saying that, the Bible is saying that" doesn't hold up either. You either agree with the Bible, in which case you're still saying that otherwise good people deserve an eternity of torment for not joining your cult - OR - you're indirectly saying that you don't really agree with the Bible but you repeat its doctrine anyway because you're so afraid of hell that you joined a cult that you don't even believe to have the real truth. In essence, then, you would be saying that you disagree with God.
But this IS a binary equation. It is either yes, I agree that people who don't join my cult deserve to be tormented for eternity or no, I disagree with that punishment, but I'll go around repeating it anyway so I won't be seen as disagreeing with God.
All of you are totally confused. As a matter of fact I went to a Catholic school my entire life, taught by priests and nuns and can't remember .......... ( private-I paid the whole thing , part time jobs) Ive known dozens of priests and not one time can I remember the word hell uttered.)
not
ONE
topic or discussion about Hell.
My family( and it is a huge huge family) and parents and friends never even think or say or talk about Hell. no matter what
The only people who think about hell is who ?
I can never EVER remember a sermon about Hell.
I can never EVER remember the WORD HELL in confession.
you guy's
speak on behalf of religion and deceive, lie, trick and create idea's that are all in your minds.
where does this come from, a few utubes or a church ask's its members to understand a hell within existence, and yu'all think yuh can carry on this braindead rant...and cheer each other on .
these insidious idea's to make up things concerning an issue of hell and smearing religion all over the place is here noted.
now apologize.
Last edited by alexcanter; 01-03-2014 at 05:32 PM..
Reason: changed this to these ideas
All of you are totally confused. As a matter of fact I went to a Catholic school my entire life, taught by priests and nuns and can't remember ... ONE ... topic or discussion about Hell.
speak on behalf of religion and deceive, lie, trick and create idea's that all all in your minds.
It is entirely possible to have a Catholic upbringing without much focus on hell. It is not at all possible in many protestant quarters, particularly fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is mostly what we decry here. I am not familiar enough with the current version of American Catholicism to even have that in mind when I talk about hellthreat.
On the other hand there is the famous "Catholic guilt" that a lot of Catholics and ex-Catholics profess to struggle with. My father's side of the family was Catholic and I recall as a child that there was a lot of obsession on their part with what was a mortal vs a venal sin and whether a sin had gone unconfessed and of course the whole matter of rushing in the priest to the bedside of the dying for last rites, lest -- what exactly?? It seems to me that there would not be that much concern about all that if there were not consequences -- if not some kind of actual hell that people have central in their awareness, then a stint in purgatory or some other punishment. It's still a matter of rewards and punishments, carrot-and-stick, and fear-based, is it not? If you managed to think your way around that in your family, more power to you, but surely you can't claim that it never harms anyone.
But if it makes you feel better, assume we are talking mostly about Bible-thumpers -- you won't be that far off the mark. Liberal Christians (Catholic or not) are not particularly virulent concerning these matters, and generally emphasize the love of god rather than the wrath of god.
It is entirely possible to have a Catholic upbringing without much focus on hell. It is not at all possible in many protestant quarters, particularly fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is mostly what we decry here. I am not familiar enough with the current version of American Catholicism to even have that in mind when I talk about hellthreat.
On the other hand there is the famous "Catholic guilt" that a lot of Catholics and ex-Catholics profess to struggle with. My father's side of the family was Catholic and I recall as a child that there was a lot of obsession on their part with what was a mortal vs a venal sin and whether a sin had gone unconfessed and of course the whole matter of rushing in the priest to the bedside of the dying for last rites, lest -- what exactly?? It seems to me that there would not be that much concern about all that if there were not consequences -- if not some kind of actual hell that people have central in their awareness, then a stint in purgatory or some other punishment. It's still a matter of rewards and punishments, carrot-and-stick, and fear-based, is it not? If you managed to think your way around that in your family, more power to you, but surely you can't claim that it never harms anyone.
But if it makes you feel better, assume we are talking mostly about Bible-thumpers -- you won't be that far off the mark. Liberal Christians (Catholic or not) are not particularly virulent concerning these matters, and generally emphasize the love of god rather than the wrath of god.
This is not accurate. Catholic's are educated mostly. In that education it is taught there is such a thing as the state of the soul. The issue is in being away from God's grace not the issue of going to hell.
it is understood that in the end there is a distinct issue of refusing or accepting God. Not only that the formal prayers are all in a contrite frame of humble reference. And last rites are for everyone-state of the soul.
people have lives.
what do you mean make me feel better ? It is yourselves that have brought this down into your minds even to the issue of thinking Hell has something to do with Why, a person has belief or does not , or it is an issue.
Belief has to do with thinking, there is most prob a god of sorts, that is it. If that is so it is explored, if that is not so, it is not explored.
if it is swinging in the breeze, that is lack of organization but still part of thinking, patience issues, demanding too much or other suggested expectations
Hell has to do with the reality of existence, what man knows and what man does not know.
yu all want to speak on behalf of religion and just make things up, engineering the attacks.
trying to set up provoking, asking and challenging the hell thing, asking people, trying to embarrass and ridicule , gang up to the believer who holds to scripture, and hell is targeted.
make things up about people who basically go down to a building and do what ? sing hymns.
Last edited by alexcanter; 01-03-2014 at 05:23 PM..
Now you have confused me. In an earlier post you asked me:
Quote:
are you so out of touch with reality that you think, the human race would exist if there was no suggestion
OF
A
HELL
?
And then wrote:
Quote:
As a matter of fact I went to a Catholic school my entire life, taught by priests and nuns and can't remember .......... ( private-I paid the whole thing , part time jobs) Ive known dozens of priests and not one time can I remember the word hell uttered.)
not
ONE
topic or discussion about Hell.
So which is it? Does humanity need the concept of hell, or is it better never mentioned?
For me, I was really sad. I decided to read the Bible as a last resort. Then God introduced himself to me personally, and that was my evidence. It took faith first, which was picking up a Bible I didn't believe in.
Thank you for sharing.
Change in belief while under emotional tension is not exclusive to people turning to Christianity.
I know a Pagan who was an Atheist at first, but became distraught and then found her gods.
Now you have confused me. In an earlier post you asked me:
And then wrote:
So which is it? Does humanity need the concept of hell, or is it better never mentioned?
Thanks.
Nice try.
The idea, -that man would have, or would self destroy himself is something I thought of the past day or so, due to this persistent endless and deliberate railroad to smear religion. Hell is in the Bible and other faith's as well, it doesn't need a broadcast. Its part of even passing language. (for example, hell of a round of golf.
If you have a look at my record of entries, it has only been when these engineered attacks against religion come along, that I even make a reluctant entry in this topic, cause it seems such an import part of the day for some thought.
so who is it that starts the hell wagon train, the believer's or church people, or the angling initiatives. Which initiative is alway's in 'need' of rallying, that should answer nicely. The right answer , answers many question's and always has, belief and organization is the issue. now Ive said enough and if someone wants to argue, fine. It won't get my answer.
Last edited by alexcanter; 01-03-2014 at 06:00 PM..
It is entirely possible to have a Catholic upbringing without much focus on hell.
.
I split from the whole program at age 15, but before then hell was certainly a very big deal, lots of emphasis on it, at least in my time at my school. The nuns used to draw hell like a revolver and wave it in our faces as their all purpose fright solution to discipline problems.
I started a spitball fight in the cafeteria? Sentenced to hell unless I was able to squeeze in a quick confession before my imminent death at the age of eight. Neil Garnerman was laughing and joking around while he was carrying the cross and leading the All Saints Day Parade? And he did this in front of the visiting Archbishop? Hell fire for Neil. Donna Courtland was caught in the rest room putting on makeup? Donna will be squatting on them coals for eternity.
All those things really happened with the nuns threatening hell for those crimes each time. Of course in each case the sentence was ultimately commuted to having Sister Mary Louis come around to your classroom with Coach Dimbowski in tow. You would then be forced to bend over and hold your ankles while Dimbowski whacked your rear with a thick wooden paddle. Hell averted via corporal punishment.
As I read through this thread, I was a little surprised and a scripture kept recurring in my mind:
Matt. 7:13-14 - “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
The world's way is the wide road and the narrow gate is God's way.
But, then I realized that this isn't the Christian thread ... so, the responses are not surprising at all.
Thank you for sharing.
Change in belief while under emotional tension is not exclusive to people turning to Christianity.
I know a Pagan who was an Atheist at first, but became distraught and then found her gods.
Many people are deceived when under emotional distress as well.
2 Corinthians 11:14 For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
There's a difference between what makes you feel good and what provides true salvation. Hope your friend will come to know the difference.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
