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Old 01-02-2014, 01:48 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,870,054 times
Reputation: 15932

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There is one expression that particularly annoys me: "Love the sinner, but hate the sin." I am not against the concept or meaning behind it, but rather the verbal or written expression of it directed at someone deemed "the sinner" by those who practice religion.

One thing is clear: it judgemental and patronizing in the extreme.

Imagine telling someone "Oh, I love you Albert ... love you as my own brother ... but you're fat and that's a result of your gluttony. Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins! I don't want you to burn in hell for eternity! I love you enough to tell you that you are a Glutton. I want you to stop the sinful behavior of gluttony. You weren't born a Glutton, but chose to engage in that sinful behavior."

Now I seriously doubt that anyone reading this ever said that to an overweight person.

The expression is more often than not hurled at gay people by self-professed "Christians."

If you entertain such a position, may I respectfully and politely request that you do not voice your opinion to someone you deem to be engaging in sinful yet legal behavior. It is rude. Perhaps the person your opinion is directed at is not a Christian and doesn't even believe in "sin." Perhaps the other person will construe you as being self righteous and you are "casting the first stone."
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,018,478 times
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I've always loathed that expression. It's mindless and judgmental.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:54 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,668,494 times
Reputation: 1266
I'd rather them say that than what one of my Christian friends wrote about the gay wedding at the Rose Bowl.

Quote:
Why are they having f****** getting married on a float during the Rose Parade??? What the F is this country coming too!!! If you're gay your gay!! Don't need to see it!! If you cant make children.... IT AIN'T RIGHT!!!!
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,576,730 times
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Best part about that expression is it doesn't even have Christian origins, it is attributed to Gandhi.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:14 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,093,665 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
There is one expression that particularly annoys me: "Love the sinner, but hate the sin." I am not against the concept or meaning behind it, but rather the verbal or written expression of it directed at someone deemed "the sinner" by those who practice religion.
OK? I personally know of a woman that told me directly that she and her boyfriend were "living in sin". They KNOW they are sinning, and the KNOW that they are not doing what God wants them to do.
Quote:
One thing is clear: it judgemental and patronizing in the extreme.
How so? I know I'm a sinner. I know I'm not perfect. Why is it "judgmental and patronizing" to say the same of someone else?
Quote:
Imagine telling someone "Oh, I love you Albert ... love you as my own brother ... but you're fat and that's a result of your gluttony. Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins! I don't want you to burn in hell for eternity! I love you enough to tell you that you are a Glutton. I want you to stop the sinful behavior of gluttony. You weren't born a Glutton, but chose to engage in that sinful behavior."

Now I seriously doubt that anyone reading this ever said that to an overweight person.
There is certainly a movement in society to help fat people get over their food addictions, though. Recently the A.M.A. declared obesity a "disease". Doctors are told to counsel fat people when they come into the clinic for other issues.
Quote:
The expression is more often than not hurled at gay people by self-professed "Christians."
Yes--we are often very tacky and rude. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an immoral behavior.
Quote:
If you entertain such a position, may I respectfully and politely request that you do not voice your opinion to someone you deem to be engaging in sinful yet legal behavior. It is rude.
So is telling someone that they should shut up and not try to help people. So please stop it.
Quote:

Perhaps the person your opinion is directed at is not a Christian and doesn't even believe in "sin." Perhaps the other person will construe you as being self righteous and you are "casting the first stone."
So you'd just prefer to leave people in their dangerous lifestyle and let them self-destruct? That's not very loving.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:34 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,013,720 times
Reputation: 32572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post

If you entertain such a position, may I respectfully and politely request that you do not voice your opinion to someone you deem to be engaging in sinful yet legal behavior. It is rude. Perhaps the person your opinion is directed at is not a Christian and doesn't even believe in "sin." Perhaps the other person will construe you as being self righteous and you are "casting the first stone."
Good stuff, Clark.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:44 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,870,054 times
Reputation: 15932
Exclamation My retort!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post

#1 How so? I know I'm a sinner. I know I'm not perfect. Why is it "judgmental and patronizing" to say the same of someone else?

#2 There is certainly a movement in society to help fat people get over their food addictions, though. Recently the A.M.A. declared obesity a "disease". Doctors are told to counsel fat people when they come into the clinic for other issues.

#3 Yes--we are often very tacky and rude. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an immoral behavior.

#4 So is telling someone that they should shut up and not try to help people. So please stop it.


#5 So you'd just prefer to leave people in their dangerous lifestyle and let them self-destruct? That's not very loving.
My answers:

1. You are not God. It is not your place to judge others. Do you go around chastising Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, and Sikhs, Atheists, Wiccans ... anyone who does not practice YOUR religion.

2. It's okay if you are the overweight person's doctor, diet counselor or spouse. Otherwise mind your own business. Even then, it is a potential medical opinion ... not an issue of religious morality or dogma.

3. That's just your opinion. I am not a Christian, and being gay is NOT immoral in my religion. In my religion calling someone immoral or a sinner is wrong (and bad karma.)

4. No, I will NOT stop it. I made a meek request using the words "respectfully" and "politely" that people refrain from rudeness. You have a perfect right to your views - such as that you think the lady who lives next door is fat and ugly and stupid - but do you have the right to express those views to her to her face or to her husband or her kids??? I will wager that a slap in the face or a punch in the nose may be the consequence of not keeping your opinion to yourself.

5. THe worst and most offensive statement of all. Gay people are not dangerous nor self destructing. I say to that NONSENSE. You are insulting members of the LGBT community. You are defaming the LGBT community. LGBT people are no better nor worse than anyone else and deserve the equal rights, respect, and the recognition any other citizen deserves. You are the victim of the kind of ignorant, prejudiced propaganda that bigots on the so-called "religious right" are waging against the LGBT community. They are taking their talking points directly from Hitler and the Nazi's playbook in their propaganda against the Jews.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:03 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,013,720 times
Reputation: 32572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post


So you'd just prefer to leave people in their dangerous lifestyle and let them self-destruct?
Whoops. Time to let all the gay couples who have gotten married and are devoted spouses know that they're involved in a dangerous life style.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:17 PM
 
995 posts, read 951,525 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
There is one expression that particularly annoys me: "Love the sinner, but hate the sin." I am not against the concept or meaning behind it, but rather the verbal or written expression of it directed at someone deemed "the sinner" by those who practice religion.

One thing is clear: it judgemental and patronizing in the extreme.

Imagine telling someone "Oh, I love you Albert ... love you as my own brother ... but you're fat and that's a result of your gluttony. Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins! I don't want you to burn in hell for eternity! I love you enough to tell you that you are a Glutton. I want you to stop the sinful behavior of gluttony. You weren't born a Glutton, but chose to engage in that sinful behavior."

Now I seriously doubt that anyone reading this ever said that to an overweight person.

The expression is more often than not hurled at gay people by self-professed "Christians."

If you entertain such a position, may I respectfully and politely request that you do not voice your opinion to someone you deem to be engaging in sinful yet legal behavior. It is rude. Perhaps the person your opinion is directed at is not a Christian and doesn't even believe in "sin." Perhaps the other person will construe you as being self righteous and you are "casting the first stone."

Apparently, Jesus shares your sentiment. He scolded the Pharisees (the sinners) and never lifted a finger against the source of sin, the Bible, which the Pharisees were following. He hated the sinner and loved the sin.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Vermont
11,754 posts, read 14,574,809 times
Reputation: 18502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
My answers:

1. You are not God. It is not your place to judge others. Do you go around chastising Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, and Sikhs, Atheists, Wiccans ... anyone who does not practice YOUR religion.

2. It's okay if you are the overweight person's doctor, diet counselor or spouse. Otherwise mind your own business. Even then, it is a potential medical opinion ... not an issue of religious morality or dogma.

3. That's just your opinion. I am not a Christian, and being gay is NOT immoral in my religion. In my religion calling someone immoral or a sinner is wrong (and bad karma.)

4. No, I will NOT stop it. I made a meek request using the words "respectfully" and "politely" that people refrain from rudeness. You have a perfect right to your views - such as that you think the lady who lives next door is fat and ugly and stupid - but do you have the right to express those views to her to her face or to her husband or her kids??? I will wager that a slap in the face or a punch in the nose may be the consequence of not keeping your opinion to yourself.

5. THe worst and most offensive statement of all. Gay people are not dangerous nor self destructing. I say to that NONSENSE. You are insulting members of the LGBT community. You are defaming the LGBT community. LGBT people are no better nor worse than anyone else and deserve the equal rights, respect, and the recognition any other citizen deserves. You are the victim of the kind of ignorant, prejudiced propaganda that bigots on the so-called "religious right" are waging against the LGBT community. They are taking their talking points directly from Hitler and the Nazi's playbook in their propaganda against the Jews.
Excellent points.

In addition, I always think that someone who says they "love the sinner, hate the sin" actually hate the so-called sinner at least as much as they hate the sin, but don't want to admit it.
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