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Old 12-09-2007, 06:00 PM
 
Location: the best coast
718 posts, read 1,818,123 times
Reputation: 197
i dont think its fair that the christmas tree is being over shadowed. maybe they should be side by side or not there at all as solution. it really isnt fair to over shadow something like that though.
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Old 12-09-2007, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Zebulon, NC
2,259 posts, read 3,696,648 times
Reputation: 3450
Quote:
Originally Posted by skatealoneskatetogether View Post
i dont think its fair that the christmas tree is being over shadowed. maybe they should be side by side or not there at all as solution. it really isnt fair to over shadow something like that though.
But by that logic, you would need to display a menorah next to every Christmas tree on public display. Why is it fair that other religious symbols are overshadowed everywhere else?
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 40,023 times
Reputation: 533
Neither the tree nor the menorah should be there in the first place.
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
24,617 posts, read 26,444,827 times
Reputation: 11249
Quote:
Originally Posted by skatealoneskatetogether View Post
i dont think its fair that the christmas tree is being over shadowed. maybe they should be side by side or not there at all as solution. it really isnt fair to over shadow something like that though.
Well, then I guess they should stop "overshadowing" our holiday in EVERY other display and state... oh wait, I guess you only meant that Christmas shouldn't be overshadowed. Who cares that other religions are pushed aside and ignored 365 days a year in this country, right?? Oy vey. As I said before, this is a case of Christians getting a taste of their own medicine, and not enjoying the bitterness of it.
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
24,617 posts, read 26,444,827 times
Reputation: 11249
P.S. We honestly don't care about the size of our menorahs (LOL), since it's a personal and not-so-important holiday... as long as I'm free to light my own, that's really all that matters. But as a minority in this country, it just hurts when Christians complain about one display where we're more prominently represented. Ridiculous!
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:42 PM
 
Location: the best coast
718 posts, read 1,818,123 times
Reputation: 197
hey folks... i never said it was okay to over shadow any religion. im not for anyone getting a taste of their own medicine when somthing is just wrong. why cant the holidays be celebrated equally and respectfully, thats all im saying. and if the city cant do that well than take all the decorations down.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
24,617 posts, read 26,444,827 times
Reputation: 11249
Quote:
Originally Posted by skatealoneskatetogether View Post
hey folks... i never said it was okay to over shadow any religion. im not for anyone getting a taste of their own medicine when somthing is just wrong. why cant the holidays be celebrated equally and respectfully, thats all im saying. and if the city cant do that well than take all the decorations down.
That's pretty much how I feel, and what most non-Christians are asking for - equal respect, and a lack of whining over who's holiday is bigger and better. But if one menorah happens to be bigger than one tree, I think that's a fairly petty thing to complain about (considering how much Christmas stuff is displayed everywhere). I don't care about the GINORMOUS trees at Fisherman's Wharf and Union Square, and in fact I'm anxious to go view them & take pictures.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:40 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 11,652 times
Reputation: 462
Just to answer a few of you since my last post I was just mad and now I will say my peace and be on my way.............

POSTED by Claire_F:
Quote:
So you clean people's homes and don't see menorah's in them? And this makes you an authority on Judaism or even anything besides how to get stains off the counter? Ridiculous?!
And no, they're not in Iraq saving Israel, but if thats what they tell you out there in rural America, then why would you educate and learn any better? What a joke?!
My business is not a "MAID SERVICE". I didn't claim to know Judaism. But you would think if this is a standard ritual for all, as I was lead to believe I would see one and I was just COMMENTING!! I happen to be in their homes, sometimes more then they are. I don't live in a poor part of the U.S. and neither do they, so I believe the problem with affording one is not here..
As far as Israel you need to get educated your the one sitting on the fence or maybe the saloon chair............We have ALWAYS, maybe we have not done the right thing, but have ALWAYS protected Israel.http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israel/


Quote:
POSTED by Smirkygrl:The much-known but rarely-acknowledged Christian inferiority complex finally rears its ugly head.....
It's funny it's always the Christian who's raising the "UGLY HEAD" when protecting their rights and EVERYONE else is being picked on. This is RIDICULOUS!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
How could I "give it a chance" when all I ever experienced in my entire childhood was hatred and loathing toward me? Yeah.. I was really asking for it.
I actually would like to apologize for my attitude toward you. I am just sick of people making it out to be the WHITE CHRISTIANS fault for ALL the worlds problems. My son just spent his middle school years being picked on, mostly by the teachers.
If you had been my friend in school I would have shown you the presents didn't mean much. It was really the fantasy of lights,snow and the spirit. We would have shared HOT CHOCOLATE & PEPPERMINT STICKS that's what Christmas is about. Forget the gifts. It's the joy of family and friendship. We never had much money either and the doctors kids did.
You need to know that not ALL Christians are out to put Jews back in Israel for Jesus to come back or to convert all the Jews. I can't wait to see Jesus, but I'm not on the team to convert all Jews to Christianity, or bring on a war to create Armageddon. Christianity is something you need and want, it's not to be forced on you, God still knows the HEART.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_F View Post
Jesus Christ, wildberries - calm down! Real CUTE!!!!
No one is trying to change the meaning of Christmas. The "season" in question is the month of December, which has traditions in addition to Christmas. The "season" has different meanings to different people. You're confusing Christmas with December. Christmas takes place in December, but it is not what December is all about for everyone.
I have to disagree here. People are trying to change the meaning. May not be trying to change the Season but they are trying to change the The REASON for the SEASON.Just look what happened in Colorado when they couldn't decide ALL white lights. Within two weeks look at the violence that's happening.
I guess I will have to get use to other symbols down the road and then it will no longer have the same meaning for America since the 19th centuryhttp://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm. we have celebrated it in a NEW way not PAGAN STYLE .
Should we have to change for others that move here or are born here and don't want it.
But for some of you it's kind of funny the Menorah is a religious symbol is it NOT? I thought most of you were against government or city officials using any religious symbol in public offices. I guess when it's YOUR symbol it's different and it's not exactly religious or maybe it is.,. One poster said "Nothing at All". This is were it's going to go.
The problem mainly is that it started with taking prayer out of schools, NOW the Pledge of Allegiance and possibly in God we Trust off the money!! What's next NO CHRISTIANS can sit HERE!!! Moderator cut: Personal attack

You know when you read may articles like this from Jewish perspective and Pastors this is just a sample of MANY articles out there ...............
Quote:
Christmas is the second most holy observance of the Christian calendar, second only to Easter. Hanukkah, by contrast, has little, if any, religious significance for the Jews. Hanukkah was not given by God in the Scriptures; it has no source in a direct command in Scripture. The Festival of Lights itself commemorates a nasty culture-war confrontation between Judah Maccabee and his followers and a Syrian military force. The Maccabees prevailed in 165 BC, thereby reclaiming the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and casting off Hellenist culture in the bargain. The Jews felt obliged to rededicate their temple, but they only had enough lamp oil for a single day. According to Jewish legend, the oil burned for eight days and nights. This was interpreted as a miracle and a sign of God’s love for the Jews.
In places where Jews live far from large Christian populations, such as Israel, Hanukkah is observed with little more than perfunctory candle lighting. In her essay, I’m dreaming of a disillusioned Jewish Christmas, author Elana Risen-Markovitz writes of Hanukkah: “Now, this little holiday has turned into a nationwide Jewish frenzy to beat non-Jews to the best toys. Arbor Day is practically of greater religious significance to Jews than Hanukkah. Even the most religious Jews, who go to temple every chance they get, don’t consider Hanukkah a worthy holiday to spend in synagogue.” She goes on to poke fun at Jews who guiltlessly adorn trees in their homes and who “are so confused that they feel it is only appropriate to adorn this blatantly Christian tradition with a bit of Jewish flair, such as a shocking Star of David plopped on the top of the tree.”
Of course, Jews are quick to defend every dimension of Hanukkah inflation. It’s their festival, after all; they can do with it what they wish. But imagine how the Jews would feel if the Christian community were to dust off the memory of some better-forgotten monk or hermit who was once a fountain of vile anti-Semitic drivel, and then made a really big deal about him every year during Yom Kippur? Wouldn’t the old guy’s “Watch out for the Jews” message seem hostile and creepy? Well, watching Jews turn little Hanukkah into a parody of Christmas is creepy, and the “Watch out for Jesus” message is wearing a bit thin. If almost half of the Jews in America weren’t atheists or agnostics, then the Jewish community would be impervious to the glitter of Christmas. But they want to have it both ways: they reject Christianity while simultaneously embracing its secular rituals. That’s not a sign of robust mental health. Trashing Christmas : Indymedia Colombia &Judaism 101: A Gentile's Guide to the Jewish Holidays...........
The most important thing to remember about Chanukkah is that it is not Jewish Christmas, no matter what the card shops and toy stores want you to believe. Chanukkah is a very minor holiday. It's not about joy to the world and peace on Earth and presents galore for everyone you've ever met; it's about lighting candles and playing games for chocolate coins and eating potato pancakes. Many Jewish parents give their children gifts during Chanukkah because they don't want their children to feel left out of Christmas, but Chanukkah gift-giving rarely extends much beyond one's own children.
Not sure how you people can blame the Christian when this is what your people say about your holiday and then you act like it's the Christians fault. I would say you need to take this up with your PARENTS and your faith. Not the Christian Child. Don't make your sadness OUR fault.
I in no means wanted to stir the pot again!! But I do feel that I was wrongly attacked and given infractions for my opinion and some known facts. It's easy to sit at your key board and slam the Christians. The rest of you need to wake up and realize there are other countries to live if you don't like the US. You are not being forced to live here or even celebrate our holidays.
This is why most move here is for the FREEDOM, but most FORGET to leave their old ways at the door. Some expect the US to except EVERY belief that hits our grounds and I believe some Americans are getting a little tried of the mixing and changing of AMERICA!!
I'm very passionate about this country and if you live here you need to act American and be PROUD of were you live. We are not the whole world we are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA at least we were!


I'm off my soap box and I'm off of this website this is not anything I feel I should be a part of.
I want to THANK ALL the CHRISTIANS that supported me through this!!
It was the BIG PICTURE you ALL failed to see and protect. This is exactly how BAAL took over and Christians are going to SIT DOWN and let it happen in America. Just like we have sat and allowed prayer out of school,Pledge of Allegiance is in the line of FIRE and now our MONEY In God we Trust!! It never looks like much when it's one thing at a time. One step closer to NO GOD in AMERICA!! I know some will say Christmas is Baal, I say "BAH HUMBUG" In the NT the idea of redemption is mostly personal (salvation), but in Eph. 5:16 it is “time” that is redeemed. I believe it is a good thing that the church has redeemed some pagan holidays, buying these “times” back out of slavery to their past and setting them free for the glory of Christ. That’s what the Spirit of Christ does best.
It's not the Menorah in itself and this really went in the wrong direction for me. I understand the praise for God, just not sure the motives are in the right direction. I believe we serve the same God, I just don't think some Jews share the same view with Christians or even think we are worth saving.

Coming to a town near you ...............No Christmas Decorations In Fort Collins This Year - ACLU - Minority Wins. This they will be able to blame the Christian for!!
May God Bless All of You and may Jesus be the Reason you celebrate DECEMBER!!!

Last edited by gizmo980; 12-12-2007 at 12:22 AM..
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Zebulon, NC
2,259 posts, read 3,696,648 times
Reputation: 3450
First of all - the first post you quoted, about cleaning people's houses? I didn't write it. Someone else did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
It was the BIG PICTURE you ALL failed to see and protect.
You just don't get it. You're the one failing to look at the big picture, because you can't see past your Christianity.

Christmas is NOT an American holiday. It's a Christian holiday. America is not a theocracy.

Ever read the U.S. Constitution? Amendment 1 reads:

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being.

So quit trying to force your beliefs down everyone's throats. I respect your right to practice your faith, but you need to respect others' rights NOT to.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:54 PM
 
Location: the best coast
718 posts, read 1,818,123 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
Just to answer a few of you since my last post I was just mad and now I will say my peace and be on my way.............

POSTED by Claire_F:

My business is not a "MAID SERVICE". I didn't claim to know Judaism. But you would think if this is a standard ritual for all, as I was lead to believe I would see one and I was just COMMENTING!! I happen to be in their homes, sometimes more then they are. I don't live in a poor part of the U.S. and neither do they, so I believe the problem with affording one is not here..
As far as Israel you need to get educated your the one sitting on the fence or maybe the saloon chair............We have ALWAYS, maybe we have not done the right thing, but have ALWAYS protected Israel.http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/20070702_a_declaration_of_independence_from_israel/


It's funny it's always the Christian who's raising the "UGLY HEAD" when protecting their rights and EVERYONE else is being picked on. This is RIDICULOUS!!!!

I actually would like to apologize for my attitude toward you. I am just sick of people making it out to be the WHITE CHRISTIANS fault for ALL the worlds problems. My son just spent his middle school years being picked on, mostly by the teachers.
If you had been my friend in school I would have shown you the presents didn't mean much. It was really the fantasy of lights,snow and the spirit. We would have shared HOT CHOCOLATE & PEPPERMINT STICKS that's what Christmas is about. Forget the gifts. It's the joy of family and friendship. We never had much money either and the doctors kids did.
You need to know that not ALL Christians are out to put Jews back in Israel for Jesus to come back or to convert all the Jews. I can't wait to see Jesus, but I'm not on the team to convert all Jews to Christianity, or bring on a war to create Armageddon. Christianity is something you need and want, it's not to be forced on you, God still knows the HEART.


I have to disagree here. People are trying to change the meaning. May not be trying to change the Season but they are trying to change the The REASON for the SEASON.Just look what happened in Colorado when they couldn't decide ALL white lights. Within two weeks look at the violence that's happening.
I guess I will have to get use to other symbols down the road and then it will no longer have the same meaning for America since the 19th centuryhttp://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm. we have celebrated it in a NEW way not PAGAN STYLE .
Should we have to change for others that move here or are born here and don't want it.
But for some of you it's kind of funny the Menorah is a religious symbol is it NOT? I thought most of you were against government or city officials using any religious symbol in public offices. I guess when it's YOUR symbol it's different and it's not exactly religious or maybe it is.,. One poster said "Nothing at All". This is were it's going to go.
The problem mainly is that it started with taking prayer out of schools, NOW the Pledge of Allegiance and possibly in God we Trust off the money!! What's next NO CHRISTIANS can sit HERE!!! Moderator cut: Personal attack

You know when you read may articles like this from Jewish perspective and Pastors this is just a sample of MANY articles out there ...............
Not sure how you people can blame the Christian when this is what your people say about your holiday and then you act like it's the Christians fault. I would say you need to take this up with your PARENTS and your faith. Not the Christian Child. Don't make your sadness OUR fault.
I in no means wanted to stir the pot again!! But I do feel that I was wrongly attacked and given infractions for my opinion and some known facts. It's easy to sit at your key board and slam the Christians. The rest of you need to wake up and realize there are other countries to live if you don't like the US. You are not being forced to live here or even celebrate our holidays.
This is why most move here is for the FREEDOM, but most FORGET to leave their old ways at the door. Some expect the US to except EVERY belief that hits our grounds and I believe some Americans are getting a little tried of the mixing and changing of AMERICA!!
I'm very passionate about this country and if you live here you need to act American and be PROUD of were you live. We are not the whole world we are the UNITED STATES of AMERICA at least we were!


I'm off my soap box and I'm off of this website this is not anything I feel I should be a part of.
I want to THANK ALL the CHRISTIANS that supported me through this!!
It was the BIG PICTURE you ALL failed to see and protect. This is exactly how BAAL took over and Christians are going to SIT DOWN and let it happen in America. Just like we have sat and allowed prayer out of school,Pledge of Allegiance is in the line of FIRE and now our MONEY In God we Trust!! It never looks like much when it's one thing at a time. One step closer to NO GOD in AMERICA!! I know some will say Christmas is Baal, I say "BAH HUMBUG" In the NT the idea of redemption is mostly personal (salvation), but in Eph. 5:16 it is “time” that is redeemed. I believe it is a good thing that the church has redeemed some pagan holidays, buying these “times” back out of slavery to their past and setting them free for the glory of Christ. That’s what the Spirit of Christ does best.
It's not the Menorah in itself and this really went in the wrong direction for me. I understand the praise for God, just not sure the motives are in the right direction. I believe we serve the same God, I just don't think some Jews share the same view with Christians or even think we are worth saving.

Coming to a town near you ...............No Christmas Decorations In Fort Collins This Year - ACLU - Minority Wins. This they will be able to blame the Christian for!!
May God Bless All of You and may Jesus be the Reason you celebrate DECEMBER!!!
Im with you 100%. I also would like to add think that there were probably ulterior motives that certian people holding in that power were representing. I wont ponint out specifics, but id like to see information regarding who makes the choice to set these things up.

Last edited by gizmo980; 12-12-2007 at 12:21 AM..
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