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Right, so when God commands the killing of babies it CANNOT be objectively wrong as you believe and have stated. You pretty much just argued against yourself.
Certainly God wanted to kill babies or he would not have commanded it. Unless you believe, as Shirina pointed out, God was out of options and had no other choice - kinda of hard to believe since you also believe this god to be all powerful and omniscience only to be out witted by his own creation.
God never commanded specifically killing babies. He ordered the Israelites to invade and wipe out a people group...but he never instructed anyone to seek out and kill babies.
In any event, the description of it happening are not commands to people living today.
And, as I've pointed out earlier.....if your system of morality is your opinion, or what society tells you? You have no basis for saying it was wrong. All you have is that you don't like it. You can't even define morality, much less determine what is moral or not.
05-08-2014, 10:40 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
God never commanded specifically killing babies. He ordered the Israelites to invade and wipe out a people group...but he never instructed anyone to seek out and kill babies.
In any event, the description of it happening are not commands to people living today.
And, as I've pointed out earlier.....if your system of morality is your opinion, or what society tells you? You have no basis for saying it was wrong. All you have is that you don't like it. You can't even define morality, much less determine what is moral or not.
The Bible mention babies specifically, and don't forget God even skipped the command and did it himself with the first born of Egypt.
And as I pointed out a thousand time already in this thread alone you keep beating the same irrelevant drums. And, just for the record, I gave a brief definition of morality - you probably just missed it or ignored it - as usual.
Anyway, Still Waiting! (for the millionth time already).
God never commanded specifically killing babies. He ordered the Israelites to invade and wipe out a people group...but he never instructed anyone to seek out and kill babies.
So the Israelites were guilty of sin for killing the infants? Unless you assume that Moses was sinning by not following God's commands, Num 31:17 is a specific command to kill all the male children regardless of age...
The question is, was that a morally evil act? If not, why not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
In any event, the description of it happening are not commands to people living today.
But they are the description of behavior ostensibly commanded by a god you claim to be eternal, unchanging, the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. If slaughtering children was right in the eyes of God then, you can't claim that it is objectively wrong... And if God commanded you to kill your own children or someone elses, you would be a hypocrite not to do so. The excuse that, "God wouldn't tell me to do that." is placing your own moral judgement above God's because according to you, he has told people to do these things, so it is consistent with his nature. The fact that you would second guess God tells me that you don't actually believe what you preach...
The Bible mention babies specifically, and don't forget God even skipped the command and did it himself with the first born of Egypt.
By your logic, you apparently think capital punishment is evil, and is equal to torture.
Quote:
And as I pointed out a thousand time already in this thread alone you keep beating the same irrelevant drums. And, just for the record, I gave a brief definition of morality - you probably just missed it or ignored it - as usual.
Anyway, Still Waiting! (for the millionth time already).
You gave me what amounts to society deciding, or you deciding something is good or bad. That does not give you the right to judge me, or anyone else, much less a different culture living in a different time.
Again...the point remains...if you can't give me a definition of what morality is....you can't measure it.
05-08-2014, 10:48 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate a system of morality...
And we are still waiting for you to demonstrate YOUR objective morality.
Quote:
...by which you can declare ANYTHING to be immoral. Can you do that? Can you define what is moral and immoral? Or will you just continue to change the subject?
It does not matter, for the millionth time Vizio, let's concede your point - now how does that demonstrate YOUR objective morality? It does not - in fact you are implicitly saying that all there is without YOUR OBJECTIVE MORALITY (something that you have not demonstrated) is Subjective Morality. As such until you demonstrate your objective morality you have basically conceded our point - that morality is subjective - Thanks!
05-08-2014, 10:52 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
By your logic, you apparently think capital punishment is evil, and is equal to torture.
Nope, try again! My logic did not use those terms. Stop the Strawmen!
Quote:
You gave me what amounts to society deciding, or you deciding something is good or bad. That does not give you the right to judge me, or anyone else, much less a different culture living in a different time.
Again...the point remains...if you can't give me a definition of what morality is....you can't measure it.
This is all irrelevant to my posts - Still Waiting!
I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate a system of morality by which you can declare ANYTHING to be immoral. Can you do that? Can you define what is moral and immoral? Or will you just continue to change the subject?
I have already explained it to you several times. I do not believe that an objective morality is meaningful. I can declare anything immoral that I want. Morality begins as a personal criteria, and grows to societal, and maybe even universal by consensus. You don't have to care, unless my view is the one shared by the society we both live in. Please note I have explained this once again, so if you keep asking the same question and pretending you have not been answered, I will have to assume you are being dishonest or you cannot understand written English.
That being said, I could define quite a few objective moralities. We could start with Kant's categorical imperative, or Objectivism, or your theory, which appears to be a combination of Might makes Right and Lockean property rights as a basis for morality, for examples. There, objective morality...
But wait, what you want to know is which one is objectively "True"? The answer is that there is no objective way to know. You have not so far asserted that there is any objective way to determine which objective morality might be right, so all you have done is kicked the can of subjectivity down the road a bit. The point here is that no one, not even you, have an objective answer. It is all subjective in the end, so why try to dress it up in the opinions of your imaginary friend? Man up and admit that it is subjective...
I have already explained it to you several times. I do not believe that an objective morality is meaningful. I can declare anything immoral that I want.
And your declaration holds no authority whatsoever. All it is is your declaration--your opinion. Your system is morally bankrupt.
05-08-2014, 11:01 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Still waiting for you to give me your system of morality. How can we judge morality? How can we definitively answer the OP's question?
I already conceded your point, for the sake of argument, that we cannot judge in an absolute manner, a persons actions. Now were is your demonstration of your objective morality - oh wait you just repeat yourself as if this does something magical.
Finally, the man without any clothes shows-ups.
Thanks for playing Vizio!
A man who postulates an objective morality that is transcendent and does nothing but run and hide is no man in my book - see ya!
Last edited by 2K5Gx2km; 05-08-2014 at 12:19 PM..
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You pretty much just argued against yourself. 
