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Let's say someone is getting a lot of media coverage because they are drawing large crowds and people are saying, "He's the Messiah; He has returned."
What are some things that this person would need to do to convince you? If not completely convince you, then at least start making you scratch your head and thinking that there's something different about this.
That's easy - bring back to life people who have been long dead. A few thousand people throughout history, for starters.
Doing that should be a piece of cake for the son of God, no?
An extraordinary claim such as this would require extraordinary evidence. If this was indeed an omnipotent, omniscient Messiah, he/she would know what evidence I would require, so I'm sure I would be convinced if the claim was true. Now, whether I would worship this individual or even hold him/her in high regard is another matter.
If he came from an Islamic-ruled country, performed miracles while wishing peace upon Moses, Muhammad and Allah, then I would say "There he is, the second coming of Jesus". (And I would NOT worship him)
I find it very unusual and interesting that all these religions previously mentioned all came up with the similar theme that their anointed one would be returning (in a second coming) to save the faithful. Even if they are dead, they will be resurrected. These ideas go back thousands of years, for the most, when people around the world lived isolated from one another. So it's probably not like they were copying from one another's religion.
The idea of a Second Coming is a very good one for religions. It promises much and gives faith to the followers, and it really doesn't even need to deliver on the promise. Hundreds and thousands of years will go by and they will still be waiting. And while they are waiting they hold on to their belief and hope for a reward at the end, when they are delivered to paradise from this "unclean" Earth.
Well, since I have stated before that the "Messiah" is just a myth, or a legend, not a real person/entity, then I would probably change the channel and watch a good conspiracy show about the sasquatch in the White House or something.
Yesterday, driving home, we passed some van that had Jesus stickers all over it, my oldest said "What a crock"
I pointed out that he should not be so harsh, perhaps, that some people have such miserable and unhappy lives, either due to disability, or lack of intelligence, or lack of education, or mental disorder, or fear or whatever. These people are so weak that they probably wish a Messiah would come along and save them from themselves. Some people are so depressed, so unhappy in life, and religion can offer that comfort, although many times, it preys on the weak and poor.
Some people in society wish for judgement or Apocalypse, because they have nothing else for which to live. They have no self-empowerment, no self-esteem but sadly a plethora of self-loathing. Proof of this is in the lives they lead, full of fear, judgement and hate. I think the sad thing is how so many people have been duped into abandoning all quality of life in self and society for the promise of an afterlife of rewards.
There is, as of press time, absolutely NO proof whatsoever of an afterlife, no proof of heaven or hell, and no proof of a Messiah. As far as we can tell, none of these phenomena exist. Not only do we have no proof, but we have no evidence, not even any inkling of anything which can be measured or demonstrated.
But, I would say that for some people, hope and faith, superstition and desperation are all that they have. And if they can practice this alone, and leave the rest of us alone, then ok. Just do not force it on the rest of us, as we want no part of it.
To convince me would require thorough explanations and demonstrations. That shouldn't be too hard. You have to convince the bride before you wed her. Still, I don't support Monarchies, so I guess a "Messiah" (Theocratic Moloch) would be out of the question. What is so hard about democracy for heaven, is what I ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
Oh ha ha.
Faith is not at all about worldly success. It is about the state of your soul.
Much to the chagrin of many folks, I say that the message is quite simple. Be right with God, be right with your fellow humans, and that is all that is necessary.
So I guess you can put me down in the camp that says if that is the message, I would believe at least that said "messiah" is at least a messenger, calling upon us to keep on message.
That wouldn't be a good method of proper elucidation. How would we "faithfully" tell the state of such a "Messiah" candidate's soul? If this candidate wasn't physically successful, would he fit into Jewish prophecy or world standards? I don't think so. The gig is to ponder to your audience, not to hope they get it by themselves. Couldn't such a simple message lead anywhere you want it to? So why wouldn't it be used by non-Messiahs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Read Revelation 19. That's what it would have to look like.
That wouldn't be a good method either. That proposal would really just be a stern biblical literalist standard set on your part. Would a Messiah really be bound and forced to work out as you wish or suppose (Jesus didn't for his apostles)? Is Revelation's message, or your interpretation of it, really master over Messiah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventura23
It takes a time in your life that either you get ill or some deep problem arises. This is when you cry out for help asking God to help you.
You will need a pain that nothing can relieve either emotionally or physically. You need to hunger and thirst for manna. I doubt it is in you from reading your post, It may happen though if you are hungry enough to know the truth about your failings and your sinful nature.nature.
Good luck
Such wouldn't be a good method either. Wouldn't suffering and desperation lead you to make rushed and improper decisions? How would this method even work without your prior psychological suggestion? Did no one experience such pains before Monotheism? I'm sure they did and I'm sure they fell pray to the cultural suggestions around them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC
The list I posted is part of the prophectic requirements for the messiah according to Jewish scripture.
We are not waiting for the messiah to "return" (as you posted in an earlier post), he hasn't came yet. In order to actually be the messiah, one must fulfill all of the prophecies within their natural lifetime. It's how we will know he is more than just another false messiah making claims that he can't deliver on.
Technically, you are waiting for "the concept" of messiah to return, as King David was considered an Anointed too. It just so happens that the culturally chosen Jewish prophets proposed that "holy kingship" ended until "one next-and-final Messiah" solved all of the Jewish and world problems.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-24-2014 at 05:32 PM..
I have no idea what it would take to truly convert me to a religion.
The only way to know is if you have been praying to Him to heal you of a disease or has healed you from drugs of from sins you are repentant for. Then you will the real one from the false savior.
The false one would be an entity that will keep you in sin and fail to heal you.
The only way to know is if you have been praying to Him to heal you of a disease or has healed you from drugs of from sins you are repentant for. Then you will the real one from the false savior.
The false one would be an entity that will keep you in sin and fail to heal you.
I WIN
This isn't a good method either, plenty of faithful Christians could call (and have called) upon Jesus or other Messiah candidates and still die or become well. We'd have to design an experiment that would differentiate the outcomes from random chance and covariates.
Plenty of "good" people pray to gods, saints, and other things and then believe that the prayer was the cause of the good fortune... or, if the outcome is opposite, that they themselves (as sinful/imperfect people) were the cause of staying in sin or failing to be healed.
Actually I believe in the deity of the Rider from Rev 19. THe spirit of throwing Moses- the false prophet, and his false god into the lake of fire is what destroys all the Abrahamic religions, and rids the world of the doctrines of terrorism. The Rider is the spirit I embody when I go online and do this. I believe Armageddon/Ragnarok is waged on sites not unlike this one. I use the prophecies of Revelations on Christian web sites. I was banned from a Christian site today for doing this. But not before I proclaimed to be the Rider, prophesized to come and throw the beast Moses and company into the lake of fire. I am the spirit of the Rider. I create the deity of the Rider..
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