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Having a convention isn't necessarily proselytizing. Writing a book might be considered proselytizing. But the difference here, I suppose is that no one is forced to read an atheist's book or attend an atheist convention. They aren't using sneaky, underhanded tactics like slipping Creationsim disguised as Intelligent Design into the classrooms, and I dare say, protesting for equal rights is something Christians and atheists SHOULD be agreeing on.
I'm debating, not proselytizing. If I were proselytizing, the mods would be deleting my posts. Simply stating one's beliefs during a back-and-forth conversation is NOT proselytizing.
Proselytizing is a one-way preach-fest that doesn't involve answering questions or hearing alternative or contrary opinions.
I would NOT go out and proselytize and I never have - again, speaking at city council meetings is not proselytizing. I'm not up there telling everyone how great it is to be an atheist and why they should be one, too. No, I was making legal arguments from the standpoint of atheism because we do have the right to be free FROM religion because only then can we practice our own beliefs (or lack of them). When religion seeks to impose itself onto everyone - usually in some ultra-fundamentalist way - all of us our diminished should they win. Because I can guarantee you that sooner or later someone with a religious view you do NOT share will seek to impose it on you, and then you'll understand where we come from.
I guess just as in morality...it's how you define it, right? Pardon me for thinking words have meanings.
and my supervisor was always talking about her religion, asked me personal questions about my faith, lectured me on whether my granddaughter attended Sunday school or not, and ended our staff meeting with a prayer. This was not a faith-based nor a private hospital.
That was one of the main reasons I quit and after I left wrote a letter to HR telling them about this. Of course, they called me back and asked if I had complained while working for her. I didn't because I felt intimidated and everyone else in our department just went along with her, although it seemed most of the people were "on the same page" as her. I still don't understand how she got away with that! (I'm not an atheist BTW, but that was certainly intrusive.)
And how do you define "proselytize" then? Because I must not see it the same way you do.
I share my faith with those that want to hear it. If someone doesn't want to hear it, I don't tell them. I don't go and bully people at a city council meeting, that's for sure.
I don't go and bully people at a city council meeting, that's for sure.
Using the First Amendment to tell the city council what you think about a particular issue is not bullying. It's called Freedom of Speech and we ALL have a right to do it.
If you don't like what an atheist has to say at a city council meeting get your butt out of the house, be active in your community, and go tell them what you think. Warning: Many meetings have time limits so don't plan on giving one of your sermons.
I share my faith with those that want to hear it. If someone doesn't want to hear it, I don't tell them. I don't go and bully people at a city council meeting, that's for sure.
I'll be honest with you, Vizio. You're starting to tick me off.
Here's what I said in my post, and I'm even going to bold it for you in the hopes that it enhances your obviously limited reading comprehension skills. Ready? Here we go:
Quote:
However, I have given speeches in front of several city councils in an effort to keep religion out of local schools, defending the right of public libraries to carry certain books, and to stop an effort by a few zealot preachers to ban secular music in all educational buildings.
Notice what I said.
I said that a group of zeolot priests were storming around town trying to ban things like books from the PUBLIC libraries, they wanted to ban ALL secular music from our PUBLIC schools - which meant no school band, no proms, no dances of any kind. Hell we wouldn't even be able to listen to music on the bus which we often did. Well, unless we were all willing to listen to Christian hymns all day.
Who the HELL do you think the bullies were? People like ME?!
Damn, man, you need to open up those blinded eyes of yours. I remember you got upset with me once for calling you a fascist yet here you are calling ME a bully for standing up to religious fascism. Your defense of it says to me and everyone else here just what kind of person you are.
If the person doing the proselytizing has convinced themselves that it's the right thing to do morally and ethically I don't see how they would perceive what they do as demeaning or obnoxious
There is no victim if the proselytizing is performed free of pressure or coercion. At times it's the "victim" who goes on a rant rather than the one proselytizing.
I don't see proselytizing as necessarily evil when it's left up to the one who is approached to reason out for themselves and decide what action to take. Some people may be curious and/or dissatisfied with their belief system yet not know how to search for the answers they seek. It may be that the one proselytizing may supply the answer(s) that have eluded them.
You are probably right in that the one doing the proselytizing doesn't see what they are doing is demeaning or obnoxious. However, I have to disagree about your second statement. No matter how sweet and smiley the speaker may be, there is always a victim. Somebody gets trapped into listening. It should not be up to the listener to make the proselytizing stop. The speaker should never assume somebody wants to hear about their religion. If somebody is unhappy with their religion and wants a new one, let that person go look for one.
I've never had an Atheist stop me on the street. It is fairly easily for people to see I am a Muslim. The Beard and funny looking hat are usually a give away.
However I have had men come up to me and make comments like "How dare you force your wife to dress like this, you are in America now. She can dress any way she wants to."
Little do they know if I ever tried to get my wife to take her Hijab off, my scalp would be hanging from her belt.
There are a lot of Muslims near where I live here in West Philly. The "funny hat" I think is cool ... kinda like a knitted yarmulke the orthodox Jews wear - but bigger.
I always say that people who wear a kind of religious garb do so not because anyone is making them but because they do so with pride and pleasure. The Amish folks who set up a farmer's market a block from my house are proud of not being "Englische" as they call the rest of us non-Amish folks and joyfully wear their Abraham Lincoln beards, straw hats and suspenders and the ladies in their long dresses with long sleeves, aprons, and little lace caps.
There are a lot of Muslims near where I live here in West Philly. The "funny hat" I think is cool ... kinda like a knitted yarmulke the orthodox Jews wear - but bigger.
I always say that people who wear a kind of religious garb do so not because anyone is making them but because they do so with pride and pleasure. The Amish folks who set up a farmer's market a block from my house are proud of not being "Englische" as they call the rest of us non-Amish folks and joyfully wear their Abraham Lincoln beards, straw hats and suspenders and the ladies in their long dresses with long sleeves, aprons, and little lace caps.
Funny thing is many people still think all Muslims wear Turbans, while it is very few that do. Most of us wear knitted "Kufis" I often get mistaken for being Jewish. Yes it does look a lot like a "Yarmulke"
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I worked in a hospital setting
Using the First Amendment to tell the city council what you think about a particular issue is not bullying. It's called Freedom of Speech and we ALL have a right to do it.
