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Old 06-12-2014, 07:35 AM
 
112 posts, read 92,908 times
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Unless they want to start paying taxes. Pay taxes then you can have a say. Ok? Just had this argument with a client of my company. She wants a theocracy, and took offense when I laughed at her, and told her we tried that, that's why we called it the Dark Ages. Morphed into a tax argument, what a way to start the day.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:59 AM
 
172 posts, read 274,438 times
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Religious people pay 95% of taxes in the USA.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:02 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJudge View Post
Religious people pay 95% of taxes in the USA.
But not religious institutions. If individuals want to get into politics, fine, but if religions per se, want to get involved, let them pay tax.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:45 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,673 posts, read 15,672,301 times
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According to the IRS rules for tax exempt organizations, they MUST stay out of politics. Therefore, a church can take positions on principles, but may NOT endorse candidates, according to what I've read about rulings on this topic. If a church wants to become political, they should be prepared to pay taxes, and notify their members that contributions are no longer tax deductible. Then, they can endorse political candidates all they want. They just have to play by the same rules as everybody else.

For example, the local theater group is tax exempt. One of their actors is running for the legislature. The theater group MAY NOT publish an official endorsement of the candidate or they may put their tax exempt status in jeopardy.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
2,865 posts, read 3,631,521 times
Reputation: 4020
Religious institutions should stay out of politics.

Then stop pushing everyday moral issues out of the moral realm and into the political realm. What the statement is really saying is "Churches/religions shut up and stay in your place".
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:26 AM
 
1,311 posts, read 1,528,808 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisblues1986 View Post
Unless they want to start paying taxes. Pay taxes then you can have a say. Ok? Just had this argument with a client of my company. She wants a theocracy, and took offense when I laughed at her, and told her we tried that, that's why we called it the Dark Ages. Morphed into a tax argument, what a way to start the day.
Obviously, a theocracy is ridiculous.

We already have 501(c)(3) rules which the IRS Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations explains the rules. Here are the highlights;
Lobbying
GENERAL RULE: Churches and nonprofit organizations may not engage in any substantial lobbying activities that attempt to influence legislation. This means that churches may engage in some activities that attempt to influence legislation.
“Legislation†includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. The Christian Law Association recommends that the amount expended on the pursuit of such activities should not exceed 5 percent of the gross annual revenues. This recommendation is called the “5 percent rule†in the following list of recommendations.

A church may do the following:

Use its facilities to allow lobbying groups to discuss social issues (subject to the 5 percent rule).
Rent or lend the church mailing list to lobbying groups (subject to the 5 percent rule).
Participate in petition drives that support or oppose specific proposed legislation.
Encourage members to communicate with legislators regarding their support or opposition of specific proposed legislation.
Hire a lobbyist to communicate with legislators regarding its support or opposition of specific proposed legislation (subject to the 5 percent rule).
Distribute position papers that support or oppose specific proposed legislation (subject to the 5 percent rule).
In addition, a church may do the following without limitation or concerns regarding the 5 percent rule:

Preach sermons on social issues and political issues.
Support or oppose legislation that directly affects its organizational structure and operation without a 5 percent limitation.
Engage in education on the political process and provide information regarding political issues. Only when the church advocates against a specific proposed legislative action does the 5 percent limitation apply.
Political campaigns
GENERAL RULE: Unlike the prohibition against substantial attempts to influence legislation, the prohibition against participating in political campaigns is absolute. Section 501(c)(3) permits some lobbying activity, but a church or other tax-exempt organization may absolutely not campaign for or against political candidates.
Because the prohibition against participating in political campaigns is absolute, the IRS focuses much more attention on it. Violation of the prohibition against participating in political campaigns may result in the immediate revocation of the church’s tax-exempt status.

DON’Ts—Political activities churches and nonprofit organizations should not do:
Make statements in support or opposition of political candidates for public office. Note: A pastor personally may make statements in support or opposition of political candidates for public office, but not in his official capacity (which would bar him from making statements during church meetings and in church communications).
Make contributions to a candidate for public office or allow candidates to solicit contributions on the church premises or during church activities.
Make contributions to Political Action Committees.
Make “in-kind†contributions or expenditures for or against candidates for public office. Such contributions would include allowing a candidate to speak in a church service about his or her candidacy; allowing a candidate to pass out campaign literature at the church; allowing the candidate to collect names and addresses at the church, to use the church mailing list or directory, or to use church facilities; and providing volunteers from the church.
Support or oppose candidates for judicial office even if the candidates are required to run on a nonpartisan basis.

DOs—Political activities churches and nonprofit organizations may do:
Allow a candidate for public office to appear at a church meeting or service as long as it is not for campaign purposes.
Introduce a candidate to the congregation as a visitor during a church meeting or service.
Allow a candidate for public office to preach or read Scripture as long as the candidate does not “preach†about his campaign or solicit volunteers or finances for the campaign.
Conduct nonpartisan voter registration programs and get-out-to-vote campaigns.
Distribute neutral voter information materials stating the positions of the candidates for public office on the issues of the campaign.
Rent its mailing list to candidates for public office; however, the list must be made available to all candidates for that public office on the same terms and at the same prices.
Allow candidates to use the church facilities; however, all other candidates for that public office must be invited to use the facilities on the same terms.

If you want to file a complaint notify the IRS. Since 1990 Branch Ministries is the only church that has lost tax exempt status.

If you think additional legislation is needed contact your elected representatives.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:47 AM
 
112 posts, read 92,908 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
According to the IRS rules for tax exempt organizations, they MUST stay out of politics. Therefore, a church can take positions on principles, but may NOT endorse candidates, according to what I've read about rulings on this topic. If a church wants to become political, they should be prepared to pay taxes, and notify their members that contributions are no longer tax deductible. Then, they can endorse political candidates all they want. They just have to play by the same rules as everybody else.

For example, the local theater group is tax exempt. One of their actors is running for the legislature. The theater group MAY NOT publish an official endorsement of the candidate or they may put their tax exempt status in jeopardy.
They may not be able to "endorse" candidates, but they do many things which essentially do that very thing. They use their influence to try and sway politics, and let's not forget, almost every politician claims they are Christian. You can be whatever you want, but stop trying to push your beliefs onto others. To say that religious institutions aren't political is naive.

Cdjudge- did I say religious people? No. The religious institutions here in Memphis hold all sorts of political activities, while avoiding taxes.

DauntlessDan- It's okay for you, or your church, to push your moral beliefs, but not others? When you have to take hints from a book that was written by goat herders thousands of years ago in order to know morals you have bigger problems. I know what is right and wrong, and what I believe, without having to be told what to think.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:42 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
Religious institutions should stay out of politics.

Then stop pushing everyday moral issues out of the moral realm and into the political realm. What the statement is really saying is "Churches/religions shut up and stay in your place".
So what's the problem with that?
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,920,829 times
Reputation: 1874
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
Religious institutions should stay out of politics.

Then stop pushing everyday moral issues out of the moral realm and into the political realm. What the statement is really saying is "Churches/religions shut up and stay in your place".
I'm a little confused; are you saying that people should not legislate morality based on religious values alone? Then I agree with you. If you are saying that moral issues that have already been made into law based on religious values alone should be left to fester, you are dead wrong.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:58 PM
 
172 posts, read 274,438 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisblues1986 View Post
They may not be able to "endorse" candidates, but they do many things which essentially do that very thing. They use their influence to try and sway politics, and let's not forget, almost every politician claims they are Christian. You can be whatever you want, but stop trying to push your beliefs onto others. To say that religious institutions aren't political is naive.

Cdjudge- did I say religious people? No. The religious institutions here in Memphis hold all sorts of political activities, while avoiding taxes.

DauntlessDan- It's okay for you, or your church, to push your moral beliefs, but not others? When you have to take hints from a book that was written by goat herders thousands of years ago in order to know morals you have bigger problems. I know what is right and wrong, and what I believe, without having to be told what to think.
How do you know what is right or wrong? Because religious society has passed down those morals for generations. Furthermore, right or wrong is all relative. What's right to one person/group, might be wrong to another group. Are you saying that atheists are automatically born with morals? How is that so when by definition, morals are taught. Isn't it an oxymoron to be atheist and have religiously derived morals?
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