Jehovah Witnesses and the holidays (paradise, worship, trinity, faith)

[Ringwielder]

Originally Posted by lovethetruth

Whether or not there is clear evidence of pagan origins, we do not celebrate them because the society says they are wrong, period !! We do not go against the slaves advice by going ahead of the organization. There is very little evidence against celebrating birthdays, however since the faithful and discreet slave advise against it, we wouldnt want to go against the slave.

Yes, wedding rings may have pagan origins, I will admit that. However since the society says it is Ok, then we will continue wearing them.

I don't know if you are joking or not, Lovethetruth, but do you not see that every time you should be saying 'the Bible' or 'God', you say 'the Society'. Surely you can see that you are putting the Society in the place of God. You are putting your trust in imperfect men. The language you use shows how deeply you are in the mind control of the Society. It almost sounds like Big Brother.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by Ringwielder

I don't know if you are joking or not, Lovethetruth, but if you do not see that every time you should be saying 'the Bible' or 'God', you say 'the Society'. Surely you can see that you are putting the Society in the place of God. You are putting your trust in imperfect men. The language you use shows how deeply you are in the mind control of the Society. It almost sounds like Big Brother.

the church has the same control over christendom. People just blindly follow the doctrines and traditions of the church.

[alicenevada]

Actually, where lovethetruth may be giving the impression that she is 'blindly' following tradition (exactly what most of the world is doing when they celebrate holidays etc, incidentaly), it is actually my opinion that she simply has great faith. Though you may feel her faith is lying in men, I have been a Jehovah's Witness my entire life and I can assure you that we are not resting or hopes or endeavors on any man. We follow the teachings of Christ and any decisions that we make as an organization, are based on the knowledge of those teachings.

Some of the 'pagan' things you are referring to, such as the wedding ring, are actually not pagan RELIGIOUS practices at all. Though there are conflicting ideas as to the origin of the wedding ring, most scholars acknowledge that the original significance was to picture a 'binding' of a man to a woman, such as by a shackle...heh heh. Actually, the pagan religions did adapt other significance to it later, the egyptians had one meaning, the romans had another etc. THerefore, it is up to the individual Christian whether he feels the ring is an acceptable symbol of marriage.

[lovethetruth]

Something I must clear up, when I mention the slave, I'm not talking about a person, I'm talking about a class of people called the faithful and discreet slave class, these are the men who provide us with information from Jehovah. They provide us with meat in due season---well not real meat, but spiritual meat.

Thanks

[Ringwielder]

Well, I said I didnt want to debate with you Alice, but you keep coming back to debate with me! Where does this 'pagan' thing end? Why do you use the names of the months of the year, the days of the week? Every time you say the word Wednesday or Thursday you are paying tribute to pagan Norse Gods. What if there was a Satanday or a Molechday? Would you still be happy using it?

And if you do not celebrate birthdays because its giving undue honour to a person, why do you celebrate wedding anniversaries..surely they do the same? Maybe its because the Society says its ok?


What is wrong with Birthdays?? Some students of the Bible believe that Jobs sons and daughters were celebrating birthdays. Nasty things have happened at Weddings. Does that make them wrong? If God did not approve of birthdays, why did He not come right out and say so.

'Thou shalt not have a special day when you receive presents and have a celebration of your birth, because it is abhorrent to me. Anyone doing such things will be subject to fiery Gehenna where you will get to be with all the pedophiles and murderers for engaging in such idolatrous practices'

The Israelites were always having festivals. They would make any excuse for a holiday, a festival, a good time. They celebrated their independence, harvests, anything for which they were thankful. And they relaxed! They didnt have to sit for 5-6 hours a day on hard seats in hot sunshine to enjoy themselves.

Honestly, if Jehovah is so petty as to put people to death for having a birthday, then He is a God I would never wish to serve...an envious dictator, who resents people having good, clean fun.

I was a Jehovah's Witness for nearly all my life and I can assure you that whatever it says in the Scriptures, you will believe whatever twist the Society puts on it. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is your mediator between you and God. No one comes to the father except through them. You cannot refute that statement. They have stated it themselves.

[alicenevada]

I did not realize you were the one that posted the 'wedding ring' comment Ringwielder. Sorry about that. I wasnt intending to open a debate. I stated a simple fact actually, that the true origin of wedding rings is cloudy and therefore not recognized to be of a false religious significance. It is a matter of conscience, plain and simple.

I am sure that anything I say about birthdays or anniversaries will simply be refuted since you've heard it from your own family. I'm glad they have persevered in spite of your feelings and I'm sure you admire them for it

I will not respond to your negative statements about the Governing Body and your disrespectful comments about my ability to decide for myself whether I have the truth. I am a Jehovah's Witness BECAUSE I believe the way I do, not the other way around.

[reassuringlyoffensive]

It wouldn't let me quote for some reason.

If you don't have faith then you're obviousy not going to believe that God protected His Word. God's name was in the OT so of course it should be in the NT as well. Jehovah's Word was protected enough, it wasn't very hard to put His name back in the NT.

Nathan

P.S. "Discreet Slave" just means JW's at the Brooklyn headquarters who work hard in understanding the Bible and then share what they learn, and instruct. Some non-believers criticise how they have changed their mind regarding some beliefs or practices (this was more common 30+ years ago), but they are constantly studying the Bible and gathering new insights, that's why that occurs/occured.

[Ringwielder]

Watchtower 1981 February 15 pp.17-19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible?

'We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the "faithful and discreet slave" organization.'

Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002 (For Britain) p. 8
5 God's Appointed Channel:


Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users. — Matt.24:45.

[alicenevada]

Amen Ringwielder. I agree with all of that actually. I'm not sure if you posted it because you were trying to encourage the Jehovah's Witnesses here present?

[Homesinrockford]

Isn't there a bible verse that talk about Not being like the nations, go to a forest and cut down a tree, decorating it with silver and gold...?