Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again, it's apparent from the bickering here that ALL the desert religions (and their schisms) are the problem. The sooner they're left behind, the better.
Now if only that outrage led to something more meaningful. It's one thing to express outrage, but what are they doing to actually stop ISIS?
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
IMHO, it's not a matter of if, but when. And the sooner the better. But until they do step up and take the bull by the horns, groups like ISIS will continue to rampage across the Muslim world with no real opposition. And non-Muslim intervention will always make them grow like crazy too, so it really does need to be Muslims taking care of their own issues.
Now if only that outrage led to something more meaningful. It's one thing to express outrage, but what are they doing to actually stop ISIS?
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
IMHO, it's not a matter of if, but when. And the sooner the better. But until they do step up and take the bull by the horns, groups like ISIS will continue to rampage across the Muslim world with no real opposition. And non-Muslim intervention will always make them grow like crazy too, so it really does need to be Muslims taking care of their own issues.
I'm not even all that convinced that good-hearted, moderate Muslims will ever really try to reclaim their lands from the rabid fundamentalists. I say this because the fundamentalists have been in control for at least a thousand years. Even places like Saudi Arabia which is rolling in oil money and operates some of the best American weaponry money can buy is still culturally oppressive, especially to women. There are still "morality police" which roam the streets in gangs of six who enforce fundamentalist Muslim morality right there on the sidewalk. That can include something as minor as a fine to something major like imprisonment or a flogging. And I don't need to remind everyone of that story where half a dozen Muslim girls were prevented from escaping a burning school because they didn't have on the proper religious head covering.
Iraq was one of the few places in the Middle East not under the thrall of fundamentalist ideologies. Saddam Hussein, despite being the sociopathic dictator that he was, was a very secular leader and absolutely -hated- Iran and our old arch-enemy, Ayatollah Khomeini. Now that secularism was vanquished by an army led by a supposedly Christian nation, Islamic fundamentalism is moving in to fill the power vacuum - and no one is doing much about it. Where are the insurgents, the IEDs, the raids that were once so prevelent against Western armies?
Just because a nation is more or less at peace and isn't a major contributor to terrorism doesn't mean that its culture and its laws aren't wrapped in Islamic fundamentalism. While it may not be as severe as in Afghanistan where things like kite-flying are weirdly illegal, the fundamentalism still exists - most notably in the form of cruel and unusual punishments for religious disobedience. Don't let the suits and ties deceive you into thinking that a lot of these places hold Western values of religious freedom, equality, and democracy.
Much of Islamic fundamentalism comes from rather warped interpretations of the Qu'ran, but Americans should be somewhat familiar with warped interpretations and the rigid literalism of holy books. People often forget that the only -real- difference between Christian and Islamic fundamentalism is that Christians, by and large, must follow secular laws.
Although it may be considered a political questions, it is just as much a religious one.
I suspect, based on past issues that were either not protested, or meekly so, that we will see little or no outrage on the Muslim "street", or frankly in much of the media or message boards, about the atrocities that ISIS is involved in, nor much decent of the Caliphate they just announced.
I hope to be proven wrong, but I doubt that.
And it seriously bothers me that is the case.
Frankly, I'm wondering why questions like this are even asked. In fact, I'm going to ask the same question, but turn it around?
Where is the US outrage against the 9/11 hijackers?
Here's a short, concise answer to both questions:
There's no more anger to be expressed. We've said it all, and now we're going to move on with our lives.
Does terrorism make us angry? You bet it does. There are, in all probability, a great deal of Muslims that are extremely angry about what ISIS is doing.
The tone of your post, Cupper, reads as though the Muslim community is being accused of complicity through inaction. Are they going to have to stand up and tell the world they're 'outraged' every time some extremist group does something monsterous?
As for godofthunder9010's post:
Quote:
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
First -- glass houses. North America has its share of Fundimentalists, too, and some of them are just as extreme (or have we forgotten about the Bray bombings and the Laree Slack murder?).
We should get our own house in order before we accuse others of having a messy kitchen.
Now if only that outrage led to something more meaningful. It's one thing to express outrage, but what are they doing to actually stop ISIS?
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
IMHO, it's not a matter of if, but when. And the sooner the better. But until they do step up and take the bull by the horns, groups like ISIS will continue to rampage across the Muslim world with no real opposition. And non-Muslim intervention will always make them grow like crazy too, so it really does need to be Muslims taking care of their own issues.
A dozen hijackers from Saudi Arabia and Egypt was enough of a pretext for the West to invade and kill thousands of Muslims in various countries who had no connection to 911 or Al Qaeda so whatever enemies non-Muslims have in the Muslim World, they have made themselves and they have to lay in the bed they've made. I am not accountable for that nor are other Muslims. The non-Muslims made the mistake of throwing the entire Muslim World into the mix of their vendetta with Al Qaeda. No one asked them to come here. Let the indigenous Christians, Jews, and other non-Muslims stay, but let the Western non-Muslims leave the region completely. Whatever enemies they have made is their problem, not mine's. We had no problem with indigenous Jews until the Zionist European Jews came preaching a mix of Jewish supremacy and European fascism, we had no problem with Middle East Christians under the American and Europeans Christians came forcing people to chose democracy or be killed. Let them leave, let the indigenous stay. The Christians and Jews in America and Europe ruined this entire region for everyone and placed their foreign interests above the interests of the native Muslim majority.
And in regards to ISIS, everything is not black and white, groups like ISIS, Jabhat Nusra, Boko Haram, Ansar Al-Islam, Islami Jihad etc have a mixture of good and bad in them. The bad of ISIS is that it's killing civilians who are really no threat to them and they've made enemies with other Muslims. The good of ISIS is that the overall goal of breaking the Western borders established to maintain Christian-Zionist domination of the Muslim World is good. There needs to be some kind of Muslim superpower to check the West. None of these invasions like Iraq, Afghanistan, or the foundation of Israel would be possible if there were some Pan-Islamic Muslim super power in place. The West does not see eye-to-eye with Russia, China, etc but will never do anything to those countries because those areas have a credible military threat. The Muslims are somewhat defenseless, so when Bush and his Christian Crusader thugs came through the lands there was nothing there to really resist them EXCEPT groups similar to ISIS. That is where their purpose comes from, these groups just need to stop killing harmless civilians.
This Western domination and puppeteering needs to end eventually because right now, the political interests of Muslims is often put on the backburner for non-Muslim political interests in OUR own lands. Non-Muslims have come to save Yezidis who ISIS has killed for a few weeks but have left Muslims to rot in Palestine, Syria, Burma, China, India, Central African Republic, Chechnya, etc who have been killed by Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Hindus etc for years. Non-Muslims have proven themselves incapable of dealing fairly with Muslims because they view themselves as being in a "Judeo-Christian" context ignoring Islam, yet they complain at the same time about these fundamentalist groups picking up arms. The people will pick up arms until there is some legitimate Muslim super power to "check and balance" America and Europe in the region just like how they will never touch Putin despite him being a brutal dictator.
The leadership of these Muslim nations that non-Muslims think are so "Islamic" do little to help Muslims as well. When the Evangelical Christian lobby in Washington created a war machine which allowed US Army Christian thugs to invade Iraq and Afghanistan for over a decade none of these Muslim leaders outside of those nations came to help. The armies and militaries in places like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc exist to suppress their own masses because most of these states were formulated thanks to the collapse of the Ottoman caliphate. They will kill their own people before allowing these people to unite for a pan-Islamic State which represents the interest of Muslims and bring us to the table, there will be problems. Instead we have a bunch of states and weak leaders only concerned with nationalistic survival. When there is some pan-Islamic military force to take up the mantle folks like ISIS will keep on rolling because no one is dumb enough to lay down their arms while non-Muslim forces such as America and Israel are still hawking around with their nukes and scud missiles.
Last edited by SouthsideTillIDie; 08-10-2014 at 12:27 PM..
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob
Frankly, I'm wondering why questions like this are even asked. In fact, I'm going to ask the same question, but turn it around?
Where is the US outrage against the 9/11 hijackers?
Here's a short, concise answer to both questions:
There's no more anger to be expressed. We've said it all, and now we're going to move on with our lives.
Does terrorism make us angry? You bet it does. There are, in all probability, a great deal of Muslims that are extremely angry about what ISIS is doing.
The tone of your post, Cupper, reads as though the Muslim community is being accused of complicity through inaction. Are they going to have to stand up and tell the world they're 'outraged' every time some extremist group does something monsterous?
....
I distinctly recall the joy that was expressed by Muslims in my former home town on 9/11. It disgusted me, and it is the first time I was aware of how what I thought were mainstream people were enthralled by the terror that was perpetuated on NYC.
The incongruity between what is said and what is done speaks volumes. Religion of peace? I only wish the Woodrow Li's of the world dominated their religion.
Now if only that outrage led to something more meaningful. It's one thing to express outrage, but what are they doing to actually stop ISIS?
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
IMHO, it's not a matter of if, but when. And the sooner the better. But until they do step up and take the bull by the horns, groups like ISIS will continue to rampage across the Muslim world with no real opposition. And non-Muslim intervention will always make them grow like crazy too, so it really does need to be Muslims taking care of their own issues.
It would be a lot easier if Islam was a single entity and all Muslims followed the same thing.
You seem to be under the impression that every group that considers them self to be Muslim is the same teaching.
Not even every group that uses the Qur'an as Scripture calls them self Muslim. Such as the Yazidi, Druze, Baha'i and to some degree Sikh. Although these groups incorporate a considerable bit of Islamic teachings none of them call them self Muslims.
Not every group that calls itself Muslim is the same or follow the same scriptures such as:
Sunni
Shi'ite
Sufi
Ismaili
Alawites
Alevis
Ahmadiyya
NOI
Even among Sunni there are major differences as to what is followed as Sharia such as Hambali, Maliki, Shafi, Hanafi, Wahabbi, Salafi, ISIS, Deobandi or none.
Islam is no specific group. It is all people that say they submit to Allaah(swt) there is quite a bit of differences between us but we call each other Muslim. there are very wide difference as to what we each consider to be Scripture.
Roughly 85% of us call our self Sunni, About 1/3 of Sunni follow the Hanafi Madhab. But like all Muslims we accept every person who uses the name Muslim as performing the action of Islam.
This:
Quote:
Therein lies the biggest trouble with predominantly Muslim nations: The sane majority tends to do absolutely nothing about the insane minority fundamentalists. Good Muslims of the world are outraged every time their religion gets dragged through the mud and make it look like all Muslims are a bunch of rabid dogs. When will they care enough to step up and start eradicating/re-educating/erasing Islam's fundamentalists rabid dogs?
It is not as clear cut as that. Not all Predominately Muslim Nations are following the same thing.
It would be a lot easier if Islam was a single entity and all Muslims followed the same thing.
You seem to be under the impression that every group that considers them self to be Muslim is the same teaching.
Not even every group that uses the Qur'an as Scripture calls them self Muslim. Such as the Yazidi, Druze, Baha'i and to some degree Sikh. Although these groups incorporate a considerable bit of Islamic teachings none of them call them self Muslims.
Not every group that calls itself Muslim is the same or follow the same scriptures such as:
Sunni
Shi'ite
Sufi
Ismaili
Alawites
Alevis
Ahmadiyya
NOI
Even among Sunni there are major differences as to what is followed as Sharia such as Hambali, Maliki, Shafi, Hanafi, Wahabbi, Salafi, ISIS, Deobandi or none.
Islam is no specific group. It is all people that say they submit to Allaah(swt) there is quite a bit of differences between us but we call each other Muslim. there are very wide difference as to what we each consider to be Scripture.
Roughly 85% of us call our self Sunni, About 1/3 of Sunni follow the Hanafi Madhab. But like all Muslims we accept every person who uses the name Muslim as performing the action of Islam.
This:
It is not as clear cut as that. Not all Predominately Muslim Nations are following the same thing.
The only people safe from ISIS are those that declare themselves Sunni...All others will be slaughtered......Quite the religion you have adopted there Woodrow....
The only people safe from ISIS are those that declare themselves Sunni...All others will be slaughtered......Quite the religion you have adopted there Woodrow....
ISIS is not following any of the 4 accepted Madhabs of Sunni.
They have formed a very radical and extremist form of Wahabbi. Even the extreme Wahabbi al-Qaeda have disavowed them.
I am not Wahabbi or Salafi. While about 85-90% of the worlds Muslims are Sunni virtually all either follow one on the 4 Madhabs or none. Only a small percentage follow Wahabbi (Salafi) and a small percentage of them support ISIS. But it is a very wealthy group possibly the wealtheist terrorist group in history.
Quote:
How ISIS became the richest terrorist group in the world
The Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) has seemingly come out of nowhere to become the wealthiest terrorist organization in the world, surpassing long-active organizations such as al Qaeda, al Shabab and the Taliban.
The well-equipped, well-organized terrorist force has spread across Iraq like wildfire, seizing key cities and much of the country’s oil wells as it surges eastward through the country. ISIS has been a steadily-growing problem in Iraq and Syria since last December, but attacks escalated in early June and culminated last Wednesday when 800 ISIS fighters captured the Iraqi city of Mosul. Since then, ISIS has significantly increased its size, territory and wealth. The International Business Times says ISIS is now worth $2 billion, making it wealthier than small countries such as Tonga, Kiribati, the Marshall Islands or the Falkland Islands.
But how did the year-old al Qaeda offshoot become wealthier than the organization that spawned it?
Half-a-billion-dollar bank heist
ISIS received a huge injection of cash when it captured the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, reports say. During the invasion, ISIS reportedly secured more than $466 million and a large quantity of gold bullion when it broke into Mosul’s central bank. Since then, the organization has continued to loot and pillage everything in its path, adding to its already considerable wealth. ISIS has also become increasingly well-armed as it appropriates military weapons and equipment left behind after the United States pulled out of Iraq in 2009.
It is not Islam that is the driving force behind ISIS it is the god called wealth. Along with a very ample supply of sophisticated military weapons we left behind when we pulled out of Iraq.
With their wealth and weapons ISIS is a very formidable enemy to all Muslim and non-Muslims in the region.
Never the less, the root problem is their religion...Tell me why all Sunni's in Iraq are safe, while other beliefs are not.....
Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion - several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven.
Mark Twain
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
