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Old 07-22-2014, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,754 posts, read 13,283,532 times
Reputation: 9740

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
You have failed to realize--the religion Jesus began was murdered along with them---- there were no Christians involved in crusades or the inquisition--- no religion using a pagan cross as its front are Christian in reality--they just tell people they are. One thing is 100% for sure--they do not teach Jesus' truths. these people-Matt 7:21-23.
Yeah, I know, when an inconvenient truth is pointed out, just disown them as Not One Of Us By Definition.

Even if these illusory virtuous ethereally spiritual and assiduously good Christians exist in history from time to time, the fact that they present themselves as a tiny remnant is telling. The victors get to write history. It wasn't the gnostics and mystics who won the day back before and during the Council of Nicea, it was a different group altogether who then accumulated the spoils of the victor, both literally and ideologically.

Besides, I am constrained to ask: if Jesus' religion was, to coin a word, "murderable", then how effective was it, really? Here we are 2,000 years on still waiting for humanity to have their "aha" moment and bow before their alleged lord and savior, and most of them are just yawning.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,754 posts, read 13,283,532 times
Reputation: 9740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Do you think the Ukrainian mess is about religious factions? I sure hope not.
My point is that Christians specifically or theists generally are not particularly persecuted, there is plenty of violence and mayhem to go around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
I thought the crusades were mostly done not by true Christians but by state run militaries ruled by a pope (who may be anything but a Christian) in Rome.
They regarded themselves as "true Christians". In fact they were simply enforcing the doctrines of their church. Of course the Inquisition had its role in sparking the reformation, etc., which eventually provoked its own outrages (Salem witch trials come to mind).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Have you ever been attacked by someone who is a true Christian in every sense of the word? Usually the drunks, drug addicts and gang bangers are the ones who cause the mayhem in cities.
Do you imagine that drunks, drug addicts and gang members are seldom Christians? Oh, I forgot ... not true Christians as you define them!

I would imagine that the underbelly of society is no different than prisons in that they are representative of the larger population, as shown by recent studies. You don't find Christians under-represented in prisons. So I don't think you can otherize people with addictions and those who live in poverty as "not one of you".
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:39 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,298,367 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
I thought the crusades were mostly done not by true Christians but by state run militaries ruled by a pope (who may be anything but a Christian) in Rome.
What a strange paradox you endorse.

Everyone is a sinner - except Christians never sin.

Nope.

Because whenever a Christian does something bad, they're not -true- Christians.

You -really- need to study your religion's violent past. You might understand just why Christianity is so dominant. I know you think it's because of some transcendent Truth, but it's not. The Western World was besieged by Christianity, and if you didn't convert, you're likely to lose your head. And not just convert to any old branch of Christianity. Oh no ... anyone worshiping a non-Catholic version of Christianity were systematically hunted down and killed. Then there was the Protestant Reformation - and hmm, how many centuries were the Protestants and Catholics murdering each other over their ridiculous god concepts?

Only reason why you're a Western Christian is because someone a long time ago forced someone else to convert or be executed. I bet one of your ancestors - nay - several of them were faced with just such a choice.

Later of course you were just tortured instead of killed outright - but if you didn't convert and repent, well, there was always having a church marshmallow night around a crackling fire of burning heathens, witches, and blasphemers.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:50 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,079 posts, read 20,492,491 times
Reputation: 5927
That is also a truth that everyone knows but no-one wants to admit - that if Christianity got the whole ball of wax like it wanted, we'd still be fighting and rowing about which kind of Christianity.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,056 posts, read 83,895,248 times
Reputation: 114296
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That is also a truth that everyone knows but no-one wants to admit - that if Christianity got the whole ball of wax like it wanted, we'd still be fighting and rowing about which kind of Christianity.
Nah, I think a lot of people would admit that!
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:36 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,883,950 times
Reputation: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Yeah, I know, when an inconvenient truth is pointed out, just disown them as Not One Of Us By Definition.

Even if these illusory virtuous ethereally spiritual and assiduously good Christians exist in history from time to time, the fact that they present themselves as a tiny remnant is telling. The victors get to write history. It wasn't the gnostics and mystics who won the day back before and during the Council of Nicea, it was a different group altogether who then accumulated the spoils of the victor, both literally and ideologically.

Besides, I am constrained to ask: if Jesus' religion was, to coin a word, "murderable", then how effective was it, really? Here we are 2,000 years on still waiting for humanity to have their "aha" moment and bow before their alleged lord and savior, and most of them are just yawning.

Jesus sent them--house to house by two, with the good news of Gods kingdom and king, but had to expose the table of demons that at minimum 99% partake off-1Cor 10:21---they don't like it--in fact they filled their hearts with hatred enough to murder all of them back then. And do not like it now either. They want their ears tickled.
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