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I don't know how many of you followed the story of Matthew Shepard, but I remember being 9 or 10 years old when he was murdered and watching a story on the news showing Westboro there boycotting the funeral and the "Angels" with their huge white wings surrounding the group so they could not be seen. I had obviously never heard of them before but I was absolutely baffled. My parents were great and had never tried to hide homosexuality from me so it was something I was aware of from a very young age. At 9 years old, most of my classmates didn't know enough to be bigots yet so I was absolutely horrified. I just remember sitting there, glued to the tv, bawling my eyes out until my parents turned off the news.
Followed these jerks ever since. If gas prices weren't so high, my best friend and I wanted to spend the summer following these people and blocking them from public view at funerals and such. After Va Tech, one of the victims was from nearby and Westboro had threatened to come out. There were at LEAST 1000 college kids in the area and probably more good samaritans poised to go drown them out, though thankfully for that poor family it never came to that.
Something that bothers me about this whole "They're not real Christians" thing is that religious people never fail to make claims that people are "Not real Christians, not real Muslims, etc... etc.." ....................Yes, their practices are rather horrible and despicable, and from what I understand about Jesus, don't necessarily go along with his teachings.
I think you answered your own question! You're arguing against yourself, because you already recognize that they don't appear to be following Jesus. And that's good that you recognize that! Christians were called Christians because it was obvious to those around them that they were following Christ. That test still holds up today. IMO, people (you too!) still know this and are applying this test (maybe subconsciously) to those who call themselves Christians... there's something about hypocrisy in others that everyone hates! Anyone can call themself a Christian, but the "real me" is the one you see.
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The thing is that is how you interpret the Bible.
If how you interpret the Bible goes against Jesus and His teachings, are you a Christian? "Christian" meaning "one who follows after and emulates Christ."
I have a friend who is a lesbian. Do I support her decision? No. But she is a dear friend to me, despite her choices.
If I had a friend who thought my orientation was actually my choice and disapproved of it, that person would not be my friend. I don't have time for that; there are too many in the world who don't hold such ridiculous prejudices. If your friend is aware of yours, I'm surprised at what she's willing to tolerate.
As for the original topic, I did some modest research on the Westboro people when I first found out about them a few years ago. I basically think they should be ignored. We give them power if we acknowledge them. The problem is what they do at people's funerals, which makes them significantly more difficult to just ignore, and for that I can't propose a solution. I just don't know.
If I had a friend who thought my orientation was actually my choice and disapproved of it, that person would not be my friend. I don't have time for that; there are too many in the world who don't hold such ridiculous prejudices. If your friend is aware of yours, I'm surprised at what she's willing to tolerate.
I'd agree with that... my love for my friends has no conditions, and I would never judge their lives in such a way. Of course I've had friends make decisions I didn't agree with, but those were clear choices (such as drunk driving, unprotected sex, etc.) - unlike being gay, which is WHO the person is. If I "disagreed" with such a huge part of their lives, why would I even be their friend? And why should they tolerate my judgment?
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As for the original topic, I did some modest research on the Westboro people when I first found out about them a few years ago. I basically think they should be ignored. We give them power if we acknowledge them. The problem is what they do at people's funerals, which makes them significantly more difficult to just ignore, and for that I can't propose a solution. I just don't know.
Ignoring them might work, but there is a line they sometimes cross... if what they're doing is harmful to others (emotionally or physically), they need to be stopped! We may not be able to arrest them, but I like the idea of surrounding them with wings.
I think you answered your own question! You're arguing against yourself, because you already recognize that they don't appear to be following Jesus. And that's good that you recognize that! Christians were called Christians because it was obvious to those around them that they were following Christ. That test still holds up today. IMO, people (you too!) still know this and are applying this test (maybe subconsciously) to those who call themselves Christians... there's something about hypocrisy in others that everyone hates! Anyone can call themself a Christian, but the "real me" is the one you see.
If how you interpret the Bible goes against Jesus and His teachings, are you a Christian? "Christian" meaning "one who follows after and emulates Christ."
I'm not arguing against myself. What if their interpretation of Jesus is one that condones their despicable acts? Granted, even I the atheist interpret what Jesus taught as to differ with what the WBC practices but they are still Christians. Like I asked before, who are we to say that their interpretation is wrong? Why? Because it doesn't sit well with us? Because we don't like how they twist it around to suit themselves? What if they're twisting it the right way and we don't know it? That, to me, is one of the fundamental issues with religion.
The people who flew planes into the World Trade Center were not what Islam preaches. Yet, we don't hesitate to call them 'Muslim Terrorists'. I don't understand how one religion is so quick to disregard another's religion. Then again, perhaps I am the only one who understands it??
Don't get me wrong, and don't think I'm defending them. I hate the Westboro Baptist Church, really I do. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if an Islamic terrorist flew a plane into their Christian church on Sunday. But, I'm still calling them Christians just as I'm going to call the next guy who straps himself into a car loaded with C4 an Islamic terrorist.
We may not be able to arrest them, but I like the idea of surrounding them with wings.
I would like to suggest that "ignoring" allows it to continue - and I like the idea of surrounding them with the (armed) National Guard troops just returned from Iraq the next time they choose to disrupt a Veteran funeral.
I would like to suggest that "ignoring" allows it to continue - and I like the idea of surrounding them with the (armed) National Guard troops just returned from Iraq the next time they choose to disrupt a Veteran funeral.
Hm...well...what's stopping us from doing something like this? I think I'd support it. Would someone argue that it's unconstitutional somehow? Violating their right to freedom of speech in some way?
Would someone argue that it's unconstitutional somehow? Violating their right to freedom of speech in some way?
Yes - that is their contention - that they are "entitled" to speak in public places - even if that public place is across the street from a funeral.
They finally DID pass a law that the Westies have to stay a certain number of feet away - but I think their right to freedom of speech does not supercede common sense decency.
There is a wonderful t-shirt that says if you won't stand behind our troops - feel free to stand in front of them.
I'm not arguing against myself. What if their interpretation of Jesus is one that condones their despicable acts? Granted, even I the atheist interpret what Jesus taught as to differ with what the WBC practices but they are still Christians. Like I asked before, who are we to say that their interpretation is wrong? Why? Because it doesn't sit well with us? Because we don't like how they twist it around to suit themselves? What if they're twisting it the right way and we don't know it? That, to me, is one of the fundamental issues with religion.
I don't care how many "what if's" you put in the paragraph... you and I and everyone else instinctively knows what Jesus would be like. We may try to deny it.. but we know. (Does WBC even talk about Jesus? I don't know much about them...) IMO, to say "that is one of the fundamental issues with religion" is a tired excuse that many use.. I don't mean this as a personal attack at all, that's just the way I see it... Many, many people blame "Christians in name only" as the reason they're not following "Christians in deed."
That's kind of like saying "I see no use to live green because there are alot of people who say they are environmentalists and don't do a thing about it and pollute like everybody else. Because of this, I'm confused about what "living green" is all about. Maybe "living green" means to pour anti-freeze into rivers. Who knows?" Totally ignoring the people who actually are trying to make a difference.
Last edited by cg81; 12-20-2007 at 08:19 AM..
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You're arguing against yourself, because you already recognize that they don't appear to be following Jesus.
