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I've noticed quite a few Protestant Christians who claim that they do not follow any religion, because they simply believe in Jesus and have a relationship with him rather than following any traditions or practices.
They seem to believe that religion is synonymous with what Paul of Tarsus calls "works", and that having a belief system is completely separate.
If you are Christian, do you consider yourself as not following any religion and simply following God?
If you are not Christian but are of a different religion, do you believe that you can claim to be free from religion yet believe in God?
If you are an atheist, what do you think about Christians and others who subscribe to such a belief? Do you find it dishonest when a Christian who goes to church every Sunday says that she or he is not religious at all but spiritual?
I can add that being "religious" in Judaism surprisingly aligns well with the Protestant belief I mentioned. Being religious ("dati" in Hebrew, or "frum" in Yiddish) means that you observe a lot of Jewish law. Whether you have strong faith in God may be implied but it's not explicitly in the definition.
I think the "spiritual but not religious" thing does a couple of things. One, it is kind of trendy and hip.
Secondly, it sets the Christian apart from other Christians as being more genuin.
As far as the belief of their personal relationship with Jesus? The two hemispheres of our brain are actually capable of having dialog with each other. They are capable of having different opinions about things.
We learned this from the split brain studies conducted by Roger Sperry in the 1960s.
If people want to call the other hemisphere of their brain "Jesus"......................
Interesting thread. At base . . . there IS only one reality and therefore only one God to account for it. Belief in God would seem to be a definite requirement of faith. But the various religions add all manner of requirements to that belief that seem to me to be at best probably unnecessary and at worst destructive to belief in God. I realize that they are all trying to define and express what they believe God wants from us . . . but that is at its best educated guesswork and at its worst tyranny. Believers in God accept that there is a purpose for human existence so any requirements in any religion should be justified on the basis of what that purpose is thought to be. The least useful purpose as a benchmark is the ubiquitous "To Obey God's Commands." It establishes no independent criteria against which requirements can be vetted. It is entirely capricious and ends up being reflective of whatever any particular religion THINKS their God commands . . . for good or ill. I would reject that purpose outright.
Sincere, thoughtful and educated believers have a moral responsibility to use every conceivable resource and knowledge available to us to vet any requirements set out by any religion . . . using reason, logic and common sense. God would NOT leave us without recourse. It is ridiculous that God would make knowing our purpose difficult or complicated or mysterious! We have the intellectual capacity to "suss it out" as my old atheist friend Arq would say (he would also say there is no purpose, tho . . . stubborn that way). As a sad commentary on humanity and the religions . . . it is an atheist who comes closest (IMO) to "sussing it out." Sam Harris sees maximizing human well-being as the most reasonable purpose. Since this embodies a concern for and implied love of humanity . . . I see its merit.
However, I do not believe we are left to our own devices completely in this matter. That is why I searched the "spiritual fossil record" of humanities' efforts to understand God for clues. Based on personal experiences . . . I know that God is available to inspire each and every one of us in our consciousness with the truth . . . if we are sincere enough and sensitive enough to recognize it. There is a definite template that underlies all the myriad efforts to understand God and our purpose within the "spiritual fossil record." My efforts led me to the Christ story as the epitome of that template . . . hence I identify with Christ in my beliefs. I do NOT identify with much that passes for the mainstream Christian religion for reasons I have made abundantly clear in my many posts.
I hope this provides some food for thought and intelligent discussion of this topic.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-12-2014 at 07:29 PM..
The concepts of Religions, Belief, Faith and Worship while entwined are not the same. A person could be deeply involved in any one and completely ignore the others.
There is also another factor that needs to be considered and that is Spirituality. Which is somewhat difficult to define but is basically the awareness of communication with the Creator.
There are people that do believe Spirituality For them the concept of Religion is not necessary.
Now to reply to one sentence from the OP.
Quote:
If you are not Christian but are of a different religion, do you believe that you can claim to be free from religion yet believe in God?
As a Muslim, my answer is no. Because the concept of religion seperate from life does does not exist to a Muslim The Arabic word De'en translates into English as Life and Religion. In other words the life a person leads is the religion they follow.
The point is to distinguish between a faith system and the forms by which it is expressed. To say that one is not "religious" but "spiritual" is an imperfect expression of an incomplete dichotomy. Forms of expression can be a great help in our walk in the Way, but they are not themselves the Way.
It sounds to me like 'irreligion' is in the air. Some kind of searching for what God wants from us, but not to be found in the rules and regulations of Holy Books except, as Mystic says, in the 'Spiritual fossil record'. Or the cumulative result of man's thinking on what religion is all about.
I find it hard to imagine how one can end up with a view on religion that doesn't somehow direct one to this religion or that, and of course, the goal of many religions is to live a life in the way that would earn a pleasant afterlife.
Having FAITH but no religion keeps you from flying planes loaded with people into buildings or burning "witches" along with thousands of other atrocities foisted on the people in the name of "Religion".
It seems to me that those that reject religions are just some more of the ones that established new 'religions' and/or sects.
They like the idea of a god and/or what they know of Jesus but don't agree with the way any of the 4,000 have already been established.
Bluntly said, they want to cherry pick the most agreeable ideas and combine them into their own new religion.
It means that People who are born again in the spirit of God are a walking Temple of the Holy Spirit , which is still religion as it is a belief system just like Atheism which is a belief system and religion under the judgment of the Supreme Court ruling in America ....... The belief of born again baptized in Holy Spirit believers is that they try not to follow the celestial spirit of religion , which is under the Spiritual authority of strife and contention , but they try to follow Jesus Holy Spirit
"Atheism which is a belief system and religion under the judgment of the Supreme Court ruling in America ......"
Indeed? Would you care to substantiate that claim?
.....
Fellowship of Humanity v. County of Alameda
a 1957 case in which an organization of humanists sought a tax exemption on the ground that they used their property "solely and exclusively for religious worship." Despite the group's non-theistic beliefs, the court determined that the activities of the Fellowship of Humanity, which included weekly Sunday meetings, were analogous to the activities of theistic churches and thus entitled to an exemption.
and (1957). The Washington Ethical Society functions much like a church, but regards itself as a non-theistic religious institution, honoring the importance of ethical living without mandating a belief in a supernatural origin for ethics.
(Arq this was about the way an organization functions for tax purposes. it is not about a belief -system in the sense that it could be regarded as a religion)
Peloza v. Capistrano School District
' (1995). In this case, a science teacher argued that, by requiring him to teach evolution, his school district was forcing him to teach the "religion" of secular humanism. The Court responded, "We reject this claim because neither the Supreme Court, nor this circuit, has ever held that evolutionism or Secular Humanism are 'religions' for Establishment Clause purposes." The Supreme Court refused to review the case.
(Arq. this means that what should be taught in the science class is science and what the science says cannot be claims as a religion)
Source, Wiki.
In any case, whether Atheism/humanism is a religion or not, the attempt to use the point to argue that it is at base no more than faith in unproven claims fails utterly, because the rationale for atheism remains the same and logically sound, while the rationale for belief in the unproven - and selected unprovens - not as probability but as utterly reliable fact remains logically bankrupt.
The attempt to make some technical point by arguing that atheism since it believes something (in fact it is more that we don't believe something) that makes it a belief system which makes it a religion is thus moribund at the outset. The only reason we contest it is because in any reasonable terms it isn't true. Not because it would somehow damage us if it was.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-13-2014 at 06:19 AM..
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The notion of religion as separate from faith
