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If flaws are eternal also but "outside" of this "God", how can perfection work upon a flaw and leave behind imperfection?
The salvation promised by Christianity is salvation from God's ignorance/wrath/shunning/ etc unless we are saved from "sin" and how "bad" it is for us intrinsically without "God" getting, or not getting, involved.
But we see the fruits and lack of faith-flown mountains.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-16-2014 at 02:14 AM..
Originally Posted by Eusebius They are born with the dying condition passed on to them (Romans 5:12) and for that reason, all sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giorgiomax
So the Maker of Realities decided we shall all born like that and then tells us not to be like that?, nice.
Death entered into all mankind due to what Adam did.
Of course God planned that this event should take place. If it happened without His involvement then He would not be God. But He didn't have it happen just as an end-all but as a means to teach us a knowledge of good and evil . . . to see our need for a Saviour.
He didn't tell us not to be dying. He made the way so that eventually we would not be dying. See Paul's answer to the problem of Romans 5:12 as stated in Romans 5:18,19. All mankind are neutral recipients of one act of two men, Adam and Christ.
Originally Posted by Eusebius They are born with the dying condition passed on to them (Romans 5:12) and for that reason, all sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Double, triple and quadruple that Nonsense!!!!
Quintuple that Nonsense! Every child is born innocent and pure as the day is long . . . just as Adam was. They learn to "miss the mark" from their animal nature (Serpent) . . . as Adam did. Their first lesson is always about right and wrong . . . Good and Evil . . . just as Adam's was.
Rom 5:12 "Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world,
and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind,
on the basis of which all sinned -"
Some babies die in the womb, some right after they are born, some a year after etc. Now prove to me Romans 5:12 is one big lie.
But I thought Jesus paid for all mankind's sins.
What the hell good did that dramatic action do if everybody is still born a sinner and since the wages of sin is death and we all still die and if you like sinning, you die the second death,too?
Did his check bounce?
But I thought Jesus paid for all mankind's sins.
What the hell good did that dramatic action do if everybody is still born a sinner and since the wages of sin is death and we all still die and if you like sinning, you die the second death,too?
Did his check bounce?
He did die for all mankind's sins. But if you notice the Bible says "all mankind will be made righteous" and all mankind will have their lives justified. It is all on God's time table.
Romans 5:12 does not say all mankind die because they sin. It says they sin because they have death operating in them.
Jesus did not die to save us from needful loving correction (the Bible calls "judging").
In my bible "Sin" is capitalized in Rom 6:23 For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord."
Sin is pictured as a sovereignty. That sovereignty hands out rations.
The second death is an actual death for those not in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation does not say they are cast into the second death because of sins.
Even believers are judged now so as not to be condemned with the world (1 Cor.11:32) and some of those Christians enter into death.
No, there was no check involved.
Christ ransomed all mankind and based upon that God will have all mankind to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4-6). It will occur. Just not on our timeline but His.
I guess you really think you've said something illuminating there Eusebius.
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