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Old 07-25-2016, 04:20 PM
 
34,423 posts, read 8,865,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Neither can a lot of what atheists believe, like Evolution.
Well, now, I'd say is that the OP has been answered through investigation of the evidence - including the Bible account - and coming to a fairly reliable conclusion. The same thing is done with evolution which people who value evidence and reason rather than Faith accept as valid, which includes both atheists and religious people. in fact even Creationists accept the evidence, but they change the names and impose a few invented genetic barriers and say it isn't evolution.

So really you are way out on a Faith -based and denialist limb here.

Oh, by the way, Folks I was completely wrong about the only alternative to legs for the Eden serpent being caterpillar tracks (since a set of wheels or an air -cushion seemed improbable). Of course the answer was obvious. It coiled itself into a spring and went boing, boing about the landscape.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:42 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,963,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Well, now, I'd say is that the OP has been answered through investigation of the evidence - including the Bible account - and coming to a fairly reliable conclusion. The same thing is done with evolution which people who value evidence and reason rather than Faith accept as valid, which includes both atheists and religious people. in fact even Creationists accept the evidence, but they change the names and impose a few invented genetic barriers and say it isn't evolution.

So really you are way out on a Faith -based and denialist limb here.

Oh, by the way, Folks I was completely wrong about the only alternative to legs for the Eden serpent being caterpillar tracks (since a set of wheels or an air -cushion seemed improbable). Of course the answer was obvious. It coiled itself into a spring and went boing, boing about the landscape.
With all respect, I have no reason to believe you'd actually read it, nor could I or would I want to attempt to type up several pages disproving evolution. If you'd like I'd be happy to point you at some excellent resources.

Answers in Genesis is a great resource to start with. I'd also suggest following "The Question Evolution Project" on FaceBook. They put out daily posts addressing some of the commonly misunderstood notions of evolution, tackling some of the false ideas that many people have.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Neither can a lot of what atheists believe, like Evolution.
Actually evolution is a fact. It is and has been observed and documented many many times.

Are you referring perhaps to the theory of evolution via natural selection? That's something else. A theory (a very very strong one since its also been observed multiple times) to explain the fact that is evolution.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:21 PM
 
34,423 posts, read 8,865,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
With all respect, I have no reason to believe you'd actually read it, nor could I or would I want to attempt to type up several pages disproving evolution. If you'd like I'd be happy to point you at some excellent resources.

Answers in Genesis is a great resource to start with. I'd also suggest following "The Question Evolution Project" on FaceBook. They put out daily posts addressing some of the commonly misunderstood notions of evolution, tackling some of the false ideas that many people have.
Oh no you don't. Our mate Eusebius has made me wary of people telling me to research their case for them. If you want to debunk evolution, start a thread or revive one (there are plenty ) and do the work yourself. I'll be glad to debate you. I'll be happy to help correct some of the false ideas people have about evolution, including the ones I have read on AiG.

And as to topic, if you wanted to make a case for historical reliability of the Bible, I'll be glad to debate you on that, too.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:14 PM
 
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https://www.jw.org/finder?docid=1020...=E&srcid=share
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingrid L View Post
The Jehovah's Witness site "A book you can trust" (The Bible is meant in case you were wondering)
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/m...bible-history/

Makes a familiar kind of aplogetics argument. It finds some archaeological confirmation of the Bible writing about Assyria and thus claims that the Bible is true.

But before reading that site, it might have been an idea to read the posts here. 6 pages isn't too demanding. The Bible account compared with the archaeological information the JW page leaves out shows that it takes a true event and puts a massive polemic spin on it, to make it seem that that a deal done between Hezekiah and Sennacherib, involving submitting to vassalage (again) and paying tribute, which could hardly have happened if the Assyrians had been smitten that they had to scamper off, was a divine smiting of the Assyrian army.

The attempt to claim true prophecy is dead in the water. There are already plenty of examples of Biblical prophecy being wrong (Babylon, Tyre and Daniel - never mind the NT ones) and datable to times after the events described by just where they history goes wrong. Bible "Prophecy" is retrospective, where it is more or less right, and false where it is wrong.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-07-2016 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:10 AM
 
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It has been raised that Jerusalem had an internal water supply and that Hezekiah had removed water from the outside somehow. Is it plausible that 185,000 men quickly faded without this commodity. These fit men would needed have consumed a fair amount of water as the siege wore on. It would explain an account that they lay dead without a mark. Was there more strategic importance to Jerusalem's inner water supply? What mechanisms could have been in place to rapidly remove or make inaccessible the outer water supply? Could God's angel be the one that kept the real water strategy a secret? Was it shameful to the Assyrians that they had lost in this way after having received the tribute and so needed to pretend there was a further great tribute? His daughters? He would not even be King of his own family. That's an untruth marker. I think that God however sent an angel to protect Hezekiah and Jerusalem so that the line of Jesus could exist. The angel worked in whichever way for the above effect in my opinion.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:46 AM
 
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There is some mileage in that. Hezekia was part of a general throwing off of Assyrian vassalage by the Syrian states. They hopes for Egyptian support, which Assyria put paid to in short order. The Assyrian army was no doubt able to obtain water from some nearby source. The Jerusalem spring was important because it meant that a siege could be sat out so long as food lasted. Sennacherib had already spent time reducing Lachish and Hezekiah has spent effort in making Jerusalem strong enough to withstand a siege. I think that Sennacherib did indeed begin to fret at the time it was taking and even if there weren't problems with disease and supply, he was anxious to get on with the campaign. When Hezekiah began to realize that he couldn't hold out for ever, he offered to submit and Sennacherib, against his usual practice, accepted. That, I think was why he had to put up posters in Nineveh telling everyone what a success had been what was really a minor event in the campaign.
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
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Maintaining an army of 185,000 men presents considerable supply and sanitation issues. Unless they settled down and started farming, I would think they would deplete the resources of the surrounding area in short order, requiring massive shipments of supplies from somewhere else. And then, 185,000 soldiers sitting in one spot without sewage systems...things would get pretty crappy in a hurry.

(Of course, I am completely ignorant of the conditions and resources in that area at that time, so WTHDIK?)
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Old 08-08-2016, 01:23 PM
 
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Maybe irrelevant, maybe not. But I shall greatly doubt the reality of that number to start with - 185 000 troops.

I watched VERY educational video few days ago, about real size of medieval battles. Of course, presenter, who was a military historiographer, is Russian, so his data were for the most known 14th, 15th, 16th and 17th centuries battles of that part of the world.
But he introduced me to something that is rather a very stiff scientific valuation of a state, called mobilization potential. Basically, it's how many trained military personnel can a state produce in case of need. This is based on logistics, population, industrial potential etc. As I said, very detailed science. Very realistic.
Interestingly, his presentation and tables slashed all those HUGE numbers of armies fighting to absolutely down to earth numbers. Dozens or maybe hundreds of soldiers. Couple thousand was almost unheard of. Examples of dukes sending 50 or 100 of soldiers to siege a LARGE city - and actually succeed! Historical fact when entire history of europe was changed by ONE HUNDRED of Polish armored cavalry sent by Chortoryjski.
Why am I mentioning this? Well, because commonly accepted numbers for the same battles he refers to are hundreds of thousands and, usually, it's THEM being in huge numbers and US being heroic dedicated small group of worriers, bravely defeating HUGE armies (should it even be by the angel involvement).
It's human nature. THEY came in huge might and force and WE defeated them with spirit and bravery and god's help.
That in mind, let's employ some logic. By far, Ivan the Terrible Russia, for example, or, even Novgorod dukeship, were way more developed and populated countries than say all those little dinky countries fighting in Bible. But even they could produce maybe few hundred, maybe a thousand of soldiers.
So for any of them biblical countries, with population in tens of thousands, to produce 185 000 army IS BS. They simply did not have mobilization potential for this. As it's not even finding 185 000 people capable of carrying weapons. It's training them. Equipping them. FEEDING them and delivering them to the battle field.
So get REAL, folks.
Of course, it's a khool story - THEY came at us in huge numbers,. so huge that god had to interfere and so story went.
But seriously - there was no way to amass such an army in those times.
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