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I certainly agree with the view that far too many Christians - not all, by a long way - but too many - seem to exhibit just the same behaviour criticized by Jesus in talking of the Pharisees.
That said, I have to observe that I am convinced that these criticisms were never voiced by Jesus who was (as a Nazorene and observing Jew) in the Pharisee ambit himself, along with his followers. The arguments and wrangles he is shown having with the Pharisees and Sadducees are one -sided arguments written by the Christian writers and of course are very one -sided and rather unfair.
The Pharisees of Jesus' day were highly respected teachers and, while their numbers were estimated as quite small, were very influential and they are the basis of today's rabbinical Judaism. They were in fact the rabbis of Jesus' time. But they very often had day jobs and just taught in their spare time.
Every time I see the accusation 'acting like a Pharisee' used in a pejorative way, I feel a wrong that needs to be put right. It is a slur and slander thousands of years old just as needing of correction as the 'without morality' slander dumped on the atheists.
The Pharisees believed not only in the authority of written law, but in the authority of the oral tradition as well. I'm pretty sure that fundamentalist Christians believe only in the written word. I'm having a difficult time imagining what oral tradition there might be for Christians to believe.
Add that Jesus Himself was something of a Pharisee, believing that both the written law and the oral tradition as equally authoritative.
Consider that the gospels speak of Jesus vis a vis "the Pharisees" but really, were there crowds of Pharisees following Him around? More likely there were a regular rotations of 2 or 3 sent from the leaders of various schools, various synagogues, to keep informed on what the new guy was up to. Jesus was certainly smart enough, well educated enough, to recognize the hypocrisy of those who tried to trip Him up or otherwise discredit Him.
Jesus was against pompousness, prideful display of faith, the monatization of faith (I'm betting He would have not been happy with the Papacy, nor with the mega churches with their vast wealth), things like that. He was also a populist, in that His message was for everyone, not just for elites.
In any case, I would say that there is no one to one correspondence between fundamentalists and Pharisees.
What both Arequipa and Chucikmann seem to be missing is that it is precisely the dependence on the letter of the Law, whether oral tradition (doctrines and dogmas) are included or not that make up the "Pharisaic" attitude and which is addressed in the statement that "the letter kills but the spirit gives life." The whole point is that dependence on a book and letters of Law is exactly counter to the need for far MORE of a commitment to the Way than following rules; it is a requirement for LOVE to guide, and that overriding, vested concern for the well-being of everyone involved in any situation to be THE consideration that determines the proceedure. Yes, indeed, Rabbinic Judaism follows pharisaic tradition, and it is Rabbinic Judaism that misses the message of Jesus.
What both Arequipa and Chucikmann seem to be missing is that it is precisely the dependence on the letter of the Law, whether oral tradition (doctrines and dogmas) are included or not that make up the "Pharisaic" attitude and which is addressed in the statement that "the letter kills but the spirit gives life." The whole point is that dependence on a book and letters of Law is exactly counter to the need for far MORE of a commitment to the Way than following rules; it is a requirement for LOVE to guide, and that overriding, vested concern for the well-being of everyone involved in any situation to be THE consideration that determines the proceedure. Yes, indeed, Rabbinic Judaism follows pharisaic tradition, and it is Rabbinic Judaism that misses the message of Jesus.
What both Arequipa and Chucikmann seem to be missing is that it is precisely the dependence on the letter of the Law, whether oral tradition (doctrines and dogmas) are included or not that make up the "Pharisaic" attitude and which is addressed in the statement that "the letter kills but the spirit gives life." The whole point is that dependence on a book and letters of Law is exactly counter to the need for far MORE of a commitment to the Way than following rules; it is a requirement for LOVE to guide, and that overriding, vested concern for the well-being of everyone involved in any situation to be THE consideration that determines the proceedure. Yes, indeed, Rabbinic Judaism follows pharisaic tradition, and it is Rabbinic Judaism that misses the message of Jesus.
I'm probably not qualified to talk on Judaism, but, since I raised the point, here goes. The problem with the gospel argument is that it applies a different way of thinking to the Jewish tradition. Effectively it nullifies it by replacing it with salvation through faith in a divine figure.
The Jewish religion was based on laws supposedly given by God to Moses. The Jewish method aimed at obeying those laws; the dickering about how far one could walk on a sabbath was somewhat academic. You already has enough room to ensure that the law was not broken,
Now, Pauline Christianity simply said all that observance of minutiae was irrelevant and replaced it with a system of behaviour that did away with all that stuff. That does not mean that it was right to do so, because God's laws were given to be kept.
Christianity argues that Jesus came and 'fulfilled' the Law, which effectively means that his message replaced it (apart from those laws that some Christians like and use to justify Sabbath observance and tithing and homophobia - which is what the 'Pharisees' topic is about). But the Jews would say that they do not believe in Jesus and his message, though it contains some good stuff which is fine in addition to observing the laws of God. But it is unjustified in sweeping away the observances of the Mosaic law. That is from the philosophy of Christianity and that Christians follow it and not the mosaic laws does not of itself make it right, and appeal to a divine messiah figure in which Jews do not believe does not make it so.
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
I'm probably not qualified to talk on Judaism, but, since I raised the point, here goes. The problem with the gospel argument is that it applies a different way of thinking to the Jewish tradition. Effectively it nullifies it by replacing it with salvation through faith in a divine figure.
The Jewish religion was based on laws supposedly given by God to Moses. The Jewish method aimed at obeying those laws; the dickering about how far one could walk on a sabbath was somewhat academic. You already has enough room to ensure that the law was not broken,
Now, Pauline Christianity simply said all that observance of minutiae was irrelevant and replaced it with a system of behaviour that did away with all that stuff. That does not mean that it was right to do so, because God's laws were given to be kept.
Christianity argues that Jesus came and 'fulfilled' the Law, which effectively means that his message replaced it (apart from those laws that some Christians like and use to justify Sabbath observance and tithing and homophobia - which is what the 'Pharisees' topic is about). But the Jews would say that they do not believe in Jesus and his message, though it contains some good stuff which is fine in addition to observing the laws of God. But it is unjustified in sweeping away the observances of the Mosaic law. That is from the philosophy of Christianity and that Christians follow it and not the mosaic laws does not of itself make it right, and appeal to a divine messiah figure in which Jews do not believe does not make it so.
Aw come on, you know christians don't like bible or religion lessons that don't conform with their preconceived ideas.
I'm probably not qualified to talk on Judaism, but, since I raised the point, here goes. The problem with the gospel argument is that it applies a different way of thinking to the Jewish tradition. Effectively it nullifies it by replacing it with salvation through faith in a divine figure.
Unfortunately you are quite correct in assessing traditional Christianity as opposed to the message of Jesus, but He never taught anything about any kind of intellectual belief or faith in a divine figure. He taught about a way of life that is based on a vested commitment to concern for others as basis. The point there being that all of the "laws" were intended to address living in community with God and man. but rules simply can't address the real requirement to actually BE committed to such a life. Laws beget lawyers if you see what I mean.
The different way of thinking is about what the believer is committed to, a principle or a set of rules.
Unfortunately you are quite correct in assessing traditional Christianity as opposed to the message of Jesus, but He never taught anything about any kind of intellectual belief or faith in a divine figure. He taught about a way of life that is based on a vested commitment to concern for others as basis. The point there being that all of the "laws" were intended to address living in community with God and man. but rules simply can't address the real requirement to actually BE committed to such a life. Laws beget lawyers if you see what I mean.
The different way of thinking is about what the believer is committed to, a principle or a set of rules.
Intellectual belief? No. Heartfelt belief, yes. Faith in a divine figure (God), yes.
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