What happens to innocent babies when they die?

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

Before he was ever even Pope, Cardinal Ratzinger himself said, " limbo was only a theological hypothesis" and "never a defined truth of faith".

I wonder how much consolation this actually is to the parents who were given the information as fact - and had to contend not just with the death of their child - considered almost universally to be one of the worst emotional traumas our species endures - but had to also content with this "fact" on top of that too.

[IamACatholic]

The question is
Cf.: [quote] What happens to {aborted} babies that are not baptized”[quote]
The Catholic position is theologically conflicted.
The Bible clearly teaches that anyone “not Baptized” cannot enter into heaven. {The Beatific Vision}
John 3: 5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Matthew 28:19-20 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
Then one has to both understand and accept what the bible clearly teaches:
One True God
Can and therefore must and does have just One true set of Faith beliefs And Founded and desires just one true church {I’m not debating; simply sharing what is biblically evident in order to answer the OPQ.}

Matthew 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”
TWO critically important points here:

[1] That Christ intended to establish a new faith in and through a new type of Divine worship space “1st use of the term “church”; to which Christ also granted the needed Powers and Authority to govern it. Mt. 16:18-19; Mt. 28: 16-20; John 17:18 & John 20:21 {all to be understood in the Literal sense}.

[2] That in verse 19; the terms “to bind and to loose” have two meanings:

[a] “To bind and to loose” in this context; in this time and in this precise place had the common understanding meaning of the POWER OF UNLIMITED GOVERNANCE [emphasis not shouting here]

Large cites were commonly “walled-in and gated”. Such is the case of Jerusalem itself.

These cites prior to having been conquered by Rome were the Domain of A {singular} king; who most often appointed an emissary; a “Visar” who the king empowered to run the day to day operation of his “kingdom.” The Visar was answerable ONLY to the king personally. This visar was given the “keys to the kingdom,” AND had the needed power to originate Laws and to change or void laws, on his own authority. This is precisely what Christ did and intended with Peter.

[b] The secondary meaning has to do with God’s plan or sin forgiveness: 1 John 1:6-8; 1 John 5: 16-17 & John 20:19-23.

From this understanding of “[a]” This new church through its Visar {Peter and Successors: also biblically provable}were not only empowered John 17:17-18 Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. “ {Literally with God’s Power and Authority…READ Mt. 10:1-8 if in doubt}, but morally obligated to make Laws.

So the Catholic church over time as it developed and grew; came to the theological understanding of Baptism; NOT only by “water in the Trinity:; but also of a Baptism of “Desire” {the Good thief being an example} and a Baptism of “Blood”; the countless Martyrs who dies in and FOR Christ.
So some theologians hold and held to a view of John 3:5 alone; while others upon reflection of God’s Mercy, Love and Necessary Goodness [Justice}, held that God simply could NOT “be God”; Good; Just and Merciful and allow the holy innocents to be condemned to hell.

This group fell back on a theology of “Limbo of the Fathers” {just Souls who could not enter into heaven until Christ had paid man’s “Original Sin” & committed “sin-dues”} and were confined to “Limbo”; a place of no suffering BUT incomplete Joy; which could ONLY be completed after the Resurrection. When once again heavens access was to be made available.

These theologians concluded that such a place {Limbo} is more likely for these completely innocent souls, that have through no fault; no personal choice of their own; have been denied heaven; and have done nothing to choose for themselves; hell.

So many now hold {given the fact that there are about 55 MILLION world-wide abortions every years}, that these holy innocents rest peacefully; without pain or suffering; BUT also without the Beatific Vision. I personally am in this latter group.

And the Catholic Church has no OFFICIAL Doctrine on this matter.
God Bless you,

IamACatholic

[IamACatholic]

The question is

Cf.: [quote] What happens to {aborted} babies that are not baptized”[quote]
The Catholic position is theologically conflicted.

The Bible clearly teaches that anyone “not Baptized” cannot enter into heaven. {The Beatific Vision}
John 3: 5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Matthew 28:19-20 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Then one has to both understand and accept what the bible clearly teaches:
One True God

Can and therefore must and does have just One true set of Faith beliefs

And Founded and desires just one true church {I’m not debating; simply sharing what is biblically evident in order to answer the OPQ.}

Matthew 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

TWO critically important points here:

[1] That Christ intended to establish a new faith in and through a new type of Divine worship space “1st use of the term “church”; to which Christ also granted the needed Powers and Authority to govern it. Mt. 16:18-19; Mt. 28: 16-20; John 17:18 & John 20:21 {all to be understood in the Literal sense}.

[2] That in verse 19; the terms “to bind and to loose” have two meanings:

[a] “To bind and to loose” in this context; in this time and in this precise place had the common understanding meaning of the POWER OF UNLIMITED GOVERNANCE [emphasis not shouting here]
Large cites were commonly “walled-in and gated”. Such is the case of Jerusalem itself.

These cites prior to having been conquered by Rome were the Domain of A {singular} king; who most often appointed an emissary; a “Visar” who the king empowered to run the day to day operation of his “kingdom.” The Visar was answerable ONLY to the king personally. This visar was given the “keys to the kingdom,” AND had the needed power to originate Laws and to change or void laws, on his own authority.

[b] The secondary meaning has to do with God’s plan or sin forgiveness: 1 John 1:6-8; 1 John 5: 16-17 & John 20:19-23.

From this understanding of “[a]” This new church through its Visar {Peter and Successors: also biblically provable}were not only empowered John 17:17-18 Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. “ {Literally with God’s Power and Authority…READ Mt. 10:1-8 if in doubt}, but morally obligated to make Laws.

So the Catholic church over time as it developed and grew; came to the theological understanding of Baptism; NOT only by “water in the Trinity:; but also of a Baptism of “Desire” {the Good thief being an example} and a Baptism of “Blood”; the countless Martyrs who dies in and FOR Christ.

So some theologians hold and held to a view of John 3:5 alone; while others upon reflection of God’s Mercy, Love and Necessary Goodness [Justice}, held that God simply could NOT “be God”; Good; Just and Merciful and allow the holy innocents to be condemned to hell.

This group fell back on a theology of “Limbo of the Fathers” {just Souls who could not enter into heaven until Christ had paid man’s “Original Sin” & committed “sin-dues”} and were confined to “Limbo”; a place of no suffering BUT incomplete Joy; which could ONLY be completed after the Resurrection. When once again heavens access was to be made available.

These theologians concluded that such a place {Limbo} is more likely for these completely innocent souls, that have through no fault; no personal choice of their own; have been denied heaven; and have done nothing to choose for themselves; hell.

So many now hold {given the fact that there are about 55 MILLION world-wide abortions every years}, that these holy innocents rest peacefully; without pain or suffering; BUT also without the Beatific Vision. I personally am in this latter group.

And the Catholic Church has no OFFICIAL Doctrine on this matter.
God Bless you,
IamACatholic

[Jim_a49]

Satan and his crew refer to them as Veal.

ain't religion grand.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by mysteriousjane

Title says it all...

They are buried...