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This is an interesting point I never heard of before but I have to ask: if we are born muslim, then why are nearly 2/3 of the world's population unaware of this when we are born? Shouldn't we have some inclination early on about our status so that we can make an educated decision later on as to whether we want to stay a muslim or risk death by converting to another religion?
Here is the info that was forwarded to me about this subject. I am by no means a scholar on Islam - I know only the small bits and pieces that others have shared with me. But here is what I was given:
The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.
In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'
Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".
If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.
The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. (By Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips )
******
Now the way I understand it, b/c Muslims believe the child is incapable insisting on his "natural inclination to follow Allah," children are not held responsible for following a different religion. However, they are held responsible once they become "aware" (and I do not know what age that is - but assume it may be 12?) Someone else perhaps can fill that in.
Last edited by brokensky; 01-02-2008 at 05:59 PM..
Reason: added info
Ok, I follow you so far. My next question is: which Supreme Being would you rather follow: Allah, who apparently advocates the killing of people who do not convert to Islam; or God, who gives us a second chance (and much more) which basically means giving us our entire lives to come to a decision to follow Him? It sounds to me like one group wants every soul on earth to know their God by threatening death and the other by exercising their own free will. Can you see the dichotomy here? If I were an outsider looking in on these two religions, I can see where they might be more than just perplexed by it all.
Well, not to fuel the fire here but if someone from the muslim faith came to me and put a gun to my head demanding my conversion to Islam, I guess they would have to end my life because I will not denounce my loyalty to my Biblical God and Savior or renounce His existence. I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs and I would hope that they would respect my rights to believe as I do.
I recently watched part of a boring Muslim cleric's lecture on YouTube. This guy misquoted the Bible verses in which Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, would come after he had gone. But this Muslim guy said that, in these verses, Jesus was promising that Mohammed, the more perfect messenger would come, but hadn't come yet because people weren't ready. I don't know if this is a common teaching in Islam.
Mohammed cobbled together a bit of this and a bit of that to "create" his own religion, with himself as God's perfect messenger and the deliverer of God's perfect Word. The fact that he cribbed some of the Bible to make up his religion doesn't mean we worship the same God.
When I think about Mohammed as a person, I believe that my God, the God whom Jesus called "Father", would never have entrusted his Word to such a man.
Issue 1... Religion All religion is of man's design therefore flawed.0
Issue 2... Faith, all faith is a blessing from God and therefore absolute.
Issue 3... Me, I hope that my faith causes me to Accept Christ of my own free will and understanding. I have never met that first person who lived a Christian life of any denomination who regretted that life.
For me I have a hard time seeing The God of the bible the same God of islam.
There are so much verse in their book that promotes killing jews and not be-friended the jew or christian.
is there not a verse in there book that says something like this if a jew would hide behind a tree do not let him escape but kill him?
The God of the bible
is loving forgiving
allah is not personal god like The biblical God is
allah hates the sinners? while The biblical God love them
etc.. the list goes on
People sue the excuse well it just they have a different siting on the same God.
well to be honest if this is the same God then he keeps contradiction his self in many ways and sounds like one confuse god that does not know what story to uphold.
There is so much in the Bible where God promotes the killing, no, the GENOCIDE, of anyone BUT Jews. Israelite soldiers regularly engaged in bloodfests, killing women, children and babies because God ordered them to. As an example:
Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
We all know about the Walls of Jericho..In addition to the destruction of Jericho the list of cities that Joshua completely destroyed, slaughtering every single inhabitant, includes: Ai (Joshua 8:24-26), Makkedah (10:28), Libnah (10:30), Lachish (10:32), Gezer (10:33), Eglon (10:35), Hebron (10:37), Debir (10:39), Hazor (11:11), and Anab (11:21). (Ai alone had 12,000 inhabitants, according to the text.) With each city destroyed, the Bible repeats the mantra, "And Joshua smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remain". He left not a single person alive, but "utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (10:40).
"Peaceful coexistence" is evidently not a phrase on God's mind.
Then of course this 'loving' God dishes out execution as a punishment for the most trivial of crimes:
Numbers 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.... And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Not only was he executed, but executed in a very savage way. He was stoned, a slow and torturous way of dying.
There are many instances in the Bible of God not giving the Israelites themselves a second chance. If they married a foreign woman or committed adultery....it was death. And yet of course we see the favoritism and instability of God when dealing with King David, who committed both murder and adultery...He was given a second chance!
Many Christians also believe that the God of the New Testament, who is the same God as in the OT, will condemn people in the afterlife to an eternity of fiery torment. Now what crimes could a human being commit that would ever warrant a fate such as that? Maybe ordering a genocide perhaps?
There is so much in the Bible where God promotes the killing, no, the GENOCIDE, of anyone BUT Jews. Israelite soldiers regularly engaged in bloodfests, killing women, children and babies because God ordered them to. As an example:
Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
We all know about the Walls of Jericho..In addition to the destruction of Jericho the list of cities that Joshua completely destroyed, slaughtering every single inhabitant, includes: Ai (Joshua 8:24-26), Makkedah (10:28), Libnah (10:30), Lachish (10:32), Gezer (10:33), Eglon (10:35), Hebron (10:37), Debir (10:39), Hazor (11:11), and Anab (11:21). (Ai alone had 12,000 inhabitants, according to the text.) With each city destroyed, the Bible repeats the mantra, "And Joshua smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remain". He left not a single person alive, but "utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (10:40).
"Peaceful coexistence" is evidently not a phrase on God's mind.
Then of course this 'loving' God dishes out execution as a punishment for the most trivial of crimes:
Numbers 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.... And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Not only was he executed, but executed in a very savage way. He was stoned, a slow and torturous way of dying.
There are many instances in the Bible of God not giving the Israelites themselves a second chance. If they married a foreign woman or committed adultery....it was death. And yet of course we see the favoritism and instability of God when dealing with King David, who committed both murder and adultery...He was given a second chance!
Many Christians also believe that the God of the New Testament, who is the same God as in the OT, will condemn people in the afterlife to an eternity of fiery torment. Now what crimes could a human being commit that would ever warrant a fate such as that? Maybe ordering a genocide perhaps?
It just doesnt add up.
Ring the nations of t he earth hated israel from the very beginnning and also God was protecting his people . If they got wipe out well no Jesus for us or no salvation for us to the christian thinking
There is so much in the Bible where God promotes the killing, no, the GENOCIDE, of anyone BUT Jews. Israelite soldiers regularly engaged in bloodfests, killing women, children and babies because God ordered them to. As an example:
Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
We all know about the Walls of Jericho..In addition to the destruction of Jericho the list of cities that Joshua completely destroyed, slaughtering every single inhabitant, includes: Ai (Joshua 8:24-26), Makkedah (10:28), Libnah (10:30), Lachish (10:32), Gezer (10:33), Eglon (10:35), Hebron (10:37), Debir (10:39), Hazor (11:11), and Anab (11:21). (Ai alone had 12,000 inhabitants, according to the text.) With each city destroyed, the Bible repeats the mantra, "And Joshua smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remain". He left not a single person alive, but "utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded" (10:40).
"Peaceful coexistence" is evidently not a phrase on God's mind.
Then of course this 'loving' God dishes out execution as a punishment for the most trivial of crimes:
Numbers 15:32-36
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.... And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Not only was he executed, but executed in a very savage way. He was stoned, a slow and torturous way of dying.
There are many instances in the Bible of God not giving the Israelites themselves a second chance. If they married a foreign woman or committed adultery....it was death. And yet of course we see the favoritism and instability of God when dealing with King David, who committed both murder and adultery...He was given a second chance!
Many Christians also believe that the God of the New Testament, who is the same God as in the OT, will condemn people in the afterlife to an eternity of fiery torment. Now what crimes could a human being commit that would ever warrant a fate such as that? Maybe ordering a genocide perhaps?
It just doesnt add up.
Many of that is The law Jesus came to fullfill it.
we are free from the of the law of death and sin now.
meaning we do not have to worry what cloths threads we have on.
No more killing animals for forgivness etc....
we are also free from the pentalty of the law now which was death
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