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Nice, linking to a site that proclaims the bible is inspired and without error aka a fundie site. Why is his opinion any different than mine, one who doesn't bible is without error?
Because the author is a contributor to a one-stop shopping site for all things fundamentalist (including an on-line "school" of theology) run by Matt Slick (a most appropriate name) and, since their roots go clear back to 1995, they have all the answers. Duh.
Agape (Yes, I know what the greek means) always makes me think of a lot of people going round with their jaws hanging open.
Nevertheless, law codes is what we need to give a society fair structure. relying on 'Love' is a dodgy business, since so often it seems to mean beating up on the opposition until they accept the system of laws your religion teaches are the right ones.
Christianity is not about governing other people, it is about governing ourselves. BE the change you want to see in the world makes a good motto.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7
All 10 Commandments remained in force, except that the Sabbath was
changed to Sunday. have a nice day !
Did you notice a number were missing?
You know, like not keeping slaves, rape or child abuse?
Instead, we have numerous verses as to how to beat your slave, that if you rape a virgin, as long as you marry her and give the father some hush money, all is OK, and nada on child abuse, except that little bit about Abraham scaring the bejesus out of Isaac on the offering rock.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
Law on the one hand is the measurement of sin, on the other it defines what God sees as abominations.
Laws are written in humans' hearts, however humans will gradually harden their hearts as time goes by. Mosaic Law is an attempt to make certain laws in a written form for the Jews to follow. The Jews can thus focus on these laws, and together with their faith in God they will be redeemed.
As for the gentiles, the Law written in hearts is in place. So there could be overlapping between the law written in hearts (for gentiles) and the Law in written form (for Jews), such as most of the 10 commandments. However, the gentiles' hearts may have already been hardened to recognize.
Still the gentiles can be redeemed through faith alone, even when their hearts are hardened to follow the Law. That's God's Grace through Christ.
It by no means says that the OT Law can be completely ignored. Under NT, its form has been changed as "Christ's teaching" instead of "OT Law". This is so because Law is a measure of sin while a teaching is not, from a legal point of view. However, a teaching is a reflection of faith. Faith without work (by Christ's teaching) is dead.
Christians thus will still follow Christ teaching to become holy in God's eye.
Look, I have read the bible in two languages, numerous bible commentaries, and taken a number of university level comparative religion courses.
I have no idea what your trying to say. Simplify it for us.
I usually think of CARM about the same way as I do of the bible, however, I did read it.
It breaks down the three categories, and then says:
If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and therefore we can dismiss Leviticus along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality, then shouldn't we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against lying (Lev. 19:11), theft (Lev. 19:13), bearing false witness (Lev. 19:16), hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17), exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18), avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36), sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5), committing adultery (Lev. 20:10), committing incest (Lev. 20:11-14), and the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)? Of course not.
And all it states is the bolded, with no explanation why we can pick and chose, does it? Can YOU explain it?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
Law on the one hand is the measurement of sin, on the other it defines what God sees as abominations.
Laws are written in humans' hearts, however humans will gradually harden their hearts as time goes by. Mosaic Law is an attempt to make certain laws in a written form for the Jews to follow. The Jews can thus focus on these laws, and together with their faith in God they will be redeemed.
As for the gentiles, the Law written in hearts is in place. So there could be overlapping between the law written in hearts (for gentiles) and the Law in written form (for Jews), such as most of the 10 commandments. However, the gentiles' hearts may have already been hardened to recognize.
Still the gentiles can be redeemed through faith alone, even when their hearts are hardened to follow the Law. That's God's Grace through Christ.
It by no means says that the OT Law can be completely ignored. Under NT, its form has been changed as "Christ's teaching" instead of "OT Law". This is so because Law is a measure of sin while a teaching is not, from a legal point of view. However, a teaching is a reflection of faith. Faith without work (by Christ's teaching) is dead.
Christians thus will still follow Christ teaching to become holy in God's eye.
Many think that a series of stories written by a bunch of bronzed aged, superstitious, ignorant desert dwelling goat herders is the last place to look for any sort of moral guidance or inspiration. They wrote about how to keep and beat slaves, but nothing that opposes rape or child abuse. Morality?
I usually think of CARM about the same way as I do of the bible, however, I did read it.
It breaks down the three categories, and then says:
If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and therefore we can dismiss Leviticus along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality, then shouldn't we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against lying (Lev. 19:11), theft (Lev. 19:13), bearing false witness (Lev. 19:16), hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17), exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18), avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36), sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5), committing adultery (Lev. 20:10), committing incest (Lev. 20:11-14), and the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)? Of course not.
And all it states is the bolded, with no explanation why we can pick and chose, does it? Can YOU explain it?
Simple: bad laws must be obeyed as well as common sense laws if you believe in that kind of stupidity.
I usually think of CARM about the same way as I do of the bible, however, I did read it.
It breaks down the three categories, and then says:
If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and therefore we can dismiss Leviticus along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality, then shouldn't we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against lying (Lev. 19:11), theft (Lev. 19:13), bearing false witness (Lev. 19:16), hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17), exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18), avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36), sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5), committing adultery (Lev. 20:10), committing incest (Lev. 20:11-14), and the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)? Of course not.
And all it states is the bolded, with no explanation why we can pick and chose, does it? Can YOU explain it?
Keep reading on after that part and the author explains it. Basically, he's suggesting that the NT does include much of Leviticus, and restates it--as a moral law.
In these discussion we have here, frequently some apologist will say something to the effect that, as far as the laws in the OT are concerned, "The laws in the OT are Mosaic laws created by God strictly for the Israelites and don't apply to the rest of us".
OK, let's accept that.
Then why are so many of the OT admonitions brought forward? Things like homosexuality, like the ten commandments etc. etc.
How do apologists determine which OT rules are to be followed, and which ones don't apply?
I don't guess I could add anything proving the apologists wrong with what they say of the laws, The New Testament does not abolish the laws of Moses, it teaches all people to try and keep it, and anyone who keeps the laws and teaches others to keep the laws will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
That's what Jesus says, and it's what I believe, so I guess I can't be of much help.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Keep reading on after that part and the author explains it. Basically, he's suggesting that the NT does include much of Leviticus, and restates it--as a moral law.
In other words, pick and choose, because from what I read, it leaves it wide open to interpretation. There was nothing definitive there.
However, let's go with what you said. In that case, we should be careful on how we beat slaves, as Jesus does mention it in his parable. As such, the instructions in Exodus are supported in Ephesians and Timothy.
So both the OT and NT support slavery, especially if we use the logic of CARM on Leviticus and homosexuality, right?
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