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Being a 'decent person' necessarily involves advocating (and probably celebrating) homosexuality?
Being a decent person involves not advocating against homosexual people by denying them rights or services based ONLY on who they happen to be. You don't have to advocate for or celebrate homosexuality, but you don't have to discriminate against them, either.
The big issue here is that the Michigan bill and others like it discriminate against PEOPLE. I can't stress that enough because I'm relatively certain most people who would use this bill are actually discriminating against the ACT of gay sex - mostly gay male sex because hatred of gays is often extremely sexist, as well.
It's not merely protesting an action, it is treating a person differently because he/she isn't the same as the person behind the counter. In fact, the business owner can't even know for sure who is gay and that's going to lead to a lot of court cases. While I certainly don't approve of it, at least with discriminating against another race, you can actually see who belongs to that race. But with gays ... you don't know! You CAN'T know.
But your right not to "advocate for" or "celebrate" homosexuality ends the moment your refusal to do so violates someone else's civil rights - and the only people who really want a law that allows religion to be used as an excuse for any kind of discrimination whatsoever are those who are closet (or open) bigots and people who hate the government and want a Wild West free-for-all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diws
Seriously, you wonder why there is a growing backlash to political correctness?
You're just not getting it if you think this is about political correctness. Nope, you're not 'getting it' at all.
No....calling them "Nazis" is not really a good comparison. But fascism does correctly describe the homosexual agenda methodologies.
Yes, Vizio, we already know that you're historically ignorant. No need to keep reminding us with your posts.
Homosexuals in Nazi Germany were considered undesirables in precisely the same way fundy religious groups see them. One reason why Ernst Rohm - leader of the SA - was assassinated was because he was gay. Later, gays were tossed into the concentration/death camps right along side the Jews. They even had to wear pink triangles in the same way Jews had to wear a Star of David.
Fact of the matter is, YOUR side is the one who would be most similar to the Nazi regime. YOUR side is the one which frequently comes out with some of the most horrific comments about gays that one could imagine. Especially Pastor Worley who actually WANTED to build concentration camps for gays and lesbians.
Oh yeah ... and the Nazis had marriage bans in place, too ... like how an Aryan can't marry a Jew and you could be thrown in jail for even having sex with a Jew.
And despite the fact that it's YOUR side that has similar policies against gays and similar views toward gays, you're going to sit here and accuse the gays of being like Nazis?
Damn, man, you really need to know when not to chime in with these kinds of comments. It's not doing your case one iota of good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You don't have to have everything to suit you. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. Why not try to live and let live?
No, Vizio ... YOU can go somewhere else. A majority of Americans now support marriage equality on a national level - meaning they support a Constitutional amendment giving homosexuals the right to marry. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
YOU are in the minority, sir, which means if YOU don't like it, YOU can go live somewhere else.
Being a decent person involves not advocating against homosexual people by denying them rights or services based ONLY on who they happen to be. You don't have to advocate for or celebrate homosexuality, but you don't have to discriminate against them, either.
The big issue here is that the Michigan bill and others like it discriminate against PEOPLE. I can't stress that enough because I'm relatively certain most people who would use this bill are actually discriminating against the ACT of gay sex - mostly gay male sex because hatred of gays is often extremely sexist, as well.
It's not merely protesting an action, it is treating a person differently because he/she isn't the same as the person behind the counter. In fact, the business owner can't even know for sure who is gay and that's going to lead to a lot of court cases. While I certainly don't approve of it, at least with discriminating against another race, you can actually see who belongs to that race. But with gays ... you don't know! You CAN'T know.
But your right not to "advocate for" or "celebrate" homosexuality ends the moment your refusal to do so violates someone else's civil rights - and the only people who really want a law that allows religion to be used as an excuse for any kind of discrimination whatsoever are those who are closet (or open) bigots and people who hate the government and want a Wild West free-for-all.
You're just not getting it if you think this is about political correctness. Nope, you're not 'getting it' at all.
Lately, most references I see to 'political correctness' are lazy, where 'political correctness' is put forth to mean no more than 'any opinion I don't like'.
Of course, this doesn't differ much from the ordinary definition of political correctness, which is invariably: Codes of speech and behavior, except for any codes of speech and behavior I happen to like.
And people who think such codes - or, 'political correctness', for those phrase-fetishists out there - are anything new, they desperately need to get a clue. The codes have changed over time, but they allow a far greater diversity of expression and behavior nown than in the past.
Consider that the second episode of Leave It To Beaver filmed was the third episode aired. You see, in episode #2 there was a toilet. And the censors took quite a long time before they decided that it was all right to show a brief glimpse of a toilet on television. In the meantime, the third episide filmed was aired. Episode #2 then followed.
Or try being a white woman in a relationship with a black man fifty years ago. Or being gay and out. Or being an atheist who didn't hide it. Or living with someone of the opposite sex and being unmarried. Or simply a single woman who wanted a career but not a husband. The list is virtually endless. Not only would the social approbation for these things be far more severe than now, in many cases these things were illegal.
And there's a lot of crossover between those who whine incessantly about 'political correctness' and people who yearn for those days when social pressure (or, political correctness) kept a lid on such behaviors. Those people, despite their claims, absolutely love political correctness - just as long as its enforcing rules of which they approve.
Sorry to drag your post off on a tangent, Shrina - I've just grown very weary of the ignorant and/or disingenuous cries of "Political correctness!", and I thought I'd expand upon your comment.
Sorry to drag your post off on a tangent, Shrina - I've just grown very weary of the ignorant and/or disingenuous cries of "Political correctness!", and I thought I'd expand upon your comment.
No worries there, Unsettomati - your post was brilliantly spot on.
My 'hateful religion'? Most everything this side of liberal Protestant / Unitarian is hateful, then. Being a 'decent person' necessarily involves advocating (and probably celebrating) homosexuality? Thanks for allowing my my own private thoughts, even if it restricts my choice of careers and effectively makes me a second class citizen.
Seriously, you wonder why there is a growing backlash to political correctness?
Being a decent person means not discriminating against others for their inherent characteristics.
I do not believe in Christianity. I do not condone eating pork, believing in a false messiah, or ignoring the Sabbath. It would also NEVER cross my mind to try to tell you that you can't do those things. Nor would it cross my mind to discriminate against you because of your CHOICE of a belief system. I'd host a Christian's wedding in my venue, bake them a cake, or photograph the ceremony. My beliefs aren't threatened by sharing in someone who believes something differently than me's joy. Why are yours?
Yes, I used to support that right. I was raised in the Deep South in the 1950's where there were a lot of places that were 'white only' and I never thought a thing about it.
With the Civil Rights movement in the 60's, black people began appearing in the restaurants and most of us easily accepted it.
I began to realize that our racist society was wrong in so many ways and I am glad we are much better now. Whenever people complain about the state of current affairs in the US, I just think back to how bad it used to be.
I was never aware that companies refused to employ women.
I asked you what you believe now, not what you used to believe. You have never heard of a company that refuses to employ women because it has been ILLEGAL since the 60s. But if a business owner in Michigan has deeply held convictions that women should remain in the home, how dare we step on their religious freedom!?!
Do you support the right of people refusing to serve blacks because of their deeply held beliefs?
No, I can't think of any case where it would be acceptable to deny service to a black person. Even if a black person showed up at a KKK rally, they should be allowed to purchase a burger at the snack bar.
I was never aware that companies refused to employ women.
Yep. I'm shocked someone your age didn't know that. There were also colleges that refused to admit women. As late as the 1970's women who wanted to be doctors were taking med schools to court to gain their rights as citizens. Which is what the LGBT community is doing.
Yep. I'm shocked someone your age didn't know that.
Hopefully you will recover and your life will return to normal
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