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The Old Testament says that God has our negative emotions. Old Testament people had no problem with God being that way. It's because they had no teaching to say that it's bad to be that way. Their gods (most people's beliefs of those days) were all temperamental and some of them were mean and that was just the nature of things.
The reason people now are trying to say that God cannot be that way (cannot have these negative human emotions) is because the New Testament teaches us NOT TO BE that way. It teaches us that those are BAD qualities to have. So it creates confusion. How can God be this way and teach us not to be this way?
So that's why people are arguing. So it's a bit ironic. The New Testament is the one which forces people to say that God cannot be as described in the Old Testament.
And why is this happening? Because the two book sets don't really belong together, they are not talking about the same faith, the same kind of belief. But they were forced into "one belief" by some group of people who put these books together, called them "The Bible" and proclaimed them to be of one belief.
The Old Testament says that God has our negative emotions. Old Testament people had no problem with God being that way. It's because they had no teaching to say that it's bad to be that way. Their gods (most people's beliefs of those days) were all temperamental and some of them were mean and that was just the nature of things.
The reason people now are trying to say that God cannot be that way (cannot have these negative human emotions) is because the New Testament teaches us NOT TO BE that way. It teaches us that those are BAD qualities to have. So it creates confusion. How can God be this way and teach us not to be this way?
So that's why people are arguing. So it's a bit ironic. The New Testament is the one which forces people to say that God cannot be as described in the Old Testament.
And why is this happening? Because the two book sets don't really belong together, they are not talking about the same faith, the same kind of belief. But they were forced into "one belief" by some group of people who put these books together, called them "The Bible" and proclaimed them to be of one belief.
If you think that the NT God is all love and ice cream, try reading the numerous passages about sinners burning in hell.
If you think that the NT God is all love and ice cream, try reading the numerous passages about sinners burning in hell.
Well, ok, I guess I should have said: ironic that some verses in the Bible say how God is and some say that God can't be that way. In other words, contradictions.
Well, ok, I guess I should have said: ironic that some verses in the Bible say how God is and some say that God can't be that way. In other words, contradictions.
I don't think the Bible is contradictory. There are people on this forum that are arguing that God can't be this or that, but that isn't Bible. There are different people from different organized religions (OR) arguing that God can't be this or that, but that isn't Bible, either. God can pretty much be whatever He wants to be. There are incidents in the Bible where God is very punishing and incidents where He is very compassionate. It is all there. Context is very important to what God is and when.
The Old Testament says that God has our negative emotions. Old Testament people had no problem with God being that way. It's because they had no teaching to say that it's bad to be that way. Their gods (most people's beliefs of those days) were all temperamental and some of them were mean and that was just the nature of things.
The reason people now are trying to say that God cannot be that way (cannot have these negative human emotions) is because the New Testament teaches us NOT TO BE that way. It teaches us that those are BAD qualities to have. So it creates confusion. How can God be this way and teach us not to be this way?
So that's why people are arguing. So it's a bit ironic. The New Testament is the one which forces people to say that God cannot be as described in the Old Testament.
And why is this happening? Because the two book sets don't really belong together, they are not talking about the same faith, the same kind of belief. But they were forced into "one belief" by some group of people who put these books together, called them "The Bible" and proclaimed them to be of one belief.
I agree the two books don't belong together. The OT Lord is about the Lord God and his chosen people. The NT is about the son of God, etc. But what if there is no son of God? I think that is the issue. I believe Jesus was the OT Lord, not the son of God. Also, God is a duality which may explain why NT authors made up son of God stories. If it was truthfully, Jesus would belong to Judaism and there would be no Christianity.
The Old Testament says that God has our negative emotions. Old Testament people had no problem with God being that way. It's because they had no teaching to say that it's bad to be that way. Their gods (most people's beliefs of those days) were all temperamental and some of them were mean and that was just the nature of things.
The reason people now are trying to say that God cannot be that way (cannot have these negative human emotions) is because the New Testament teaches us NOT TO BE that way. It teaches us that those are BAD qualities to have. So it creates confusion. How can God be this way and teach us not to be this way?
So that's why people are arguing. So it's a bit ironic. The New Testament is the one which forces people to say that God cannot be as described in the Old Testament.
And why is this happening? Because the two book sets don't really belong together, they are not talking about the same faith, the same kind of belief. But they were forced into "one belief" by some group of people who put these books together, called them "The Bible" and proclaimed them to be of one belief.
Why is the god of The Old Testament one of the nastiest characters in all of fiction? Because the book is written by cruel and nasty authors. The bible is the work of man, not a loving deity.
Who says the two books do not go together? Even Jesus referred to Moses and Adam as historical figures. The two books are meant to be a seamless continuum, I think.
I was under the impression (based on Bible teachings) that people are called "sinners" (bad) because they can't help but occasionally do bad. They can't always be good. And that's why God had to give heaven as a gift. Because people can't earn it (if earning it requires to only be good, to only do good).
To be good, you have to always forgive your enemies, don't pay evil for evil, always be kind, always be helpful, patient, don't lose your temper, sacrifice to help others, not be selfish.
And you are bad if you are envious, jealous or involved in bickering or angry fighting, or being unkind, or losing temper, or being vengeful and unforgiving... and so on.
I understood that humans are sinful and that's why sometimes they do bad things and feel bad things, they can't help it.
But God is supposed to be perfect, and is supposed to be good all the time. This to me is a new testament teaching.
But what do we see? God being Bad (jealous, vengeful, losing his temper, bullying those who are weaker than him, demanding that all only do what he wants, being selfish by creating people even if it meant their eternal suffering, unforgiving, being cruel beyond human imagination, being unfair).
So my question was: if God is teaching us that these things are sinful and bad (in the new testament), how could he himself have these emotions (according to the old testament and even some verses of the new testament)?
I was under the impression (based on Bible teachings) that people are called "sinners" (bad) because they can't help but occasionally do bad. They can't always be good. And that's why God had to give heaven as a gift. Because people can't earn it (if earning it requires to only be good, to only do good).
To be good, you have to always forgive your enemies, don't pay evil for evil, always be kind, always be helpful, patient, don't lose your temper, sacrifice to help others, not be selfish.
And you are bad if you are envious, jealous or involved in bickering or angry fighting, or being unkind, or losing temper, or being vengeful and unforgiving... and so on.
I understood that humans are sinful and that's why sometimes they do bad things and feel bad things, they can't help it.
But God is supposed to be perfect, and is supposed to be good all the time. This to me is a new testament teaching.
But what do we see? God being Bad (jealous, vengeful, losing his temper, bullying those who are weaker than him, demanding that all only do what he wants, being selfish by creating people even if it meant their eternal suffering, unforgiving, being cruel beyond human imagination, being unfair).
So my question was: if God is teaching us that these things are sinful and bad (in the new testament), how could he himself have these emotions (according to the old testament and even some verses of the new testament)?
Hey LoveWisdom,
Can I offer a different perspective.
We cannot know the mind of God. So, when he does something that we call "bad" by our standards, God may be doing something good and we just don't realize it.
If you were to consider that God is the Heavenly Father and we are his children, then His knowledge and understanding are like an earthly father, who is so much wiser, with his child. If you had a child about to run out into the road and you could see a car coming that would hit your child, you might take off running, tackle the child, knocking him down and breaking his arm. It might seem mean and cruel that you tackled your child, knocked him down, and broke his arm. But considering that your child was about to run out in front of a car and get killed, then you did the right, good, protective thing. If someone else did not see the car, but saw you tackle the child, that third party would see you as mean and cruel. Yet, you were not being mean and cruel at all.
We cannot know the mind or heart of God for He is wise and knowing beyond our understanding. When you read the Bible and see God "tackle" one of His children, you must remember that you cannot see the "car" headed for that child. It is not the actions of God that we should question. It is our limited view, our limited understanding, and our limited knowledge of the mind and heart of God that we should question. The fault lies with us, not with God.
On this earth, as much as we love and respect and revere life and do everything that we can do to hang on to it, it is the life with God that is the real prize. So, when God did something that caused the deaths of people, perhaps He wasn't being mean or cruel, but giving them a chance to make things right with Him in His presence before they made things worse on this earth and lost their immortal souls.
We have no way of knowing the mind of God. I truly believe that we should always give God the benefit of the doubt. I think we should always see anything and everything God does as "for good", even if it seems bad to us. God has a reason. We just don't understand it. As a good parent on this earth, we sometimes punish our child. It may seem harsh; the child seeing it certainly thinks it is mean and cruel, but a good parent does this to help the child learn right from wrong and make good choices. In the long run, it isn't mean or cruel. Your child's very survival could depend on you doing the right thing to help that child in the long run. A good parent understands what he must do; the child rarely understands. When it comes to God, we are the children who don't understand and see things as mean and cruel even when they aren't.
I can be loving and kind. I can also be angry and have been known to punish my kids (before they grew up). Does that mean I do not exist?
I think it just means you are human, and not pure love and understanding. Unless love and understanding thinks that suffering is necessary, in which case, no one should look forward to a happy ending.
Now if suffering is merely "partly" necessary, then it was a hurtle that love and understanding (God) could not overcome for now, weakening them as mental models.
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