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Christianity can stand with out Judaism. It did before it became Christianity. It would probably have a different name but Christianity does not have the same beliefs or value system as the Jews. Early Christians just took the old testament as a support system to incorporate the rest of there belief system. Christianity is a pagan or Greek and Babylonian mystery religion. Judeo-Christian is a term Christian groups used to associate themselves to Judaism. Do you ever hear Jews used the term? No. The only time I hear the term is in political descriptions or in religion classes taught in college.
They may seem very similar but they are not even close in values or beliefs. You are being lied to if you think other wise. If you do not believe me ask a question about any topic in the bible and I will show you there difference in beliefs and values.
"It is a mistake to believe that Christianity is the decendent of modern Judaism. Instead, it is much closer to the truth to state that from the matrix of ideas surrounding the end of the Second Temple era emerged two religions, Christianity and rabbinical Judaism, both of which claimed continuity with the original religion. They are not parent and child; they are brothers. As were Cain and Abel."
John Dominic Crossan, The Birth of Christianity, 1999
"Judaism is Judaism because it rejects Christianity; and Christianity is Christianity because it rejects Judaism."
Rabbi Eliezar Berkowitz,
chairman Jewish philosophy department at Hebrew Theological College, 1966 Regarding the term Judeo-Christian
The comments of Jewish author Mr. S. Levin may well explain the Christian's need for the Judeo-Christian myth. Writing in the Israeli journal Biblical Polemics, Levin concludes: "'After all, we worship the same God', the Christian always says to the Jew and the Jew never to the Christian. The Jew knows that he does not worship the Christ-God but the Christian orphan needs to worship the God of Israel and so, his standard gambit rolls easily and thoughtlessly from his lips. It is a strictly unilateral affirmation, limited to making a claim on the God of Israel but never invoked with reference to other gods. A Christian never confronts a Moslem or a Hindu with 'After all, we worship the same God'." The Myth of a Judeo-Christian Tradition
well, you pretty much summed up what I was trying to say. You will never hear an observant Jew use this term, only a Christian. I do want to say that whatever Judaism was before Christ coming is not what it is after Christ came.
The funny thing is before 70ad temple Christianty was consider sector of Judisiam
What history book are you reading. Please cite some work. I never have heard that. Some of early christians were jews but they abandon Judaism over time. Actually Christianty by name was not around until about 100 to 200 years after Jesus Death.
What history book are you reading. Please cite some work. I never have heard that. Some of early christians were jews but they abandon Judaism over time. Actually Christianty by name was not around until about 100 to 200 years after Jesus Death.
christianty was around right after after Jesus left.
1 .he preach love everyone as you would love your self a Torah teaching.
2. Love God with all your stength mind and soul a Torah teaching
3. worship God and no other Torah teaching
etc....
as for paul I do not see any problem with him alot of people do not understand him and because of that they accuse him of not being one with jesus teaching.
I already had a long debate about paul on different site if you want me to post my response I will.
You need to read your own text (bible). Jesus did not preach love.
luke 12
51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
luke 14
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Unfortantly if Jesus thought he was GOD then he broke the Ten commandments. If you understand that the messiah is suppose to restore the torah then how can jesus fit if he is teaching us to hate are family and calls himself god.
John 10
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Deuteronomy 13
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Numbers 23 19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord, he is G.d in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me.
Isaiah 43:10 I am He, before Me no god was created, neither shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts, I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no god.
Isaiah 45:18 I am the Lord, and there is none else.
john 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him
Isaiah 43:10-11 Before Me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am the Lord, and beside Me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 45:21-22 ... I the Lord, and there is no god else beside Me, a just god and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else.
Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God, and thou shall know no god but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me.
I will Close with this:
Jerm 17: 5 This is what the LORD says:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
Jesus no matter how you discribe him was a MAN. He was son of MAN...wake up and smell the roses. There is no way Jesus was the Messiah.
You need to read your own text (bible). Jesus did not preach love.
l
You must have forgotten that one of the last things that Jesus said to his disciples is to love one another and He commanded to love God with all our strength.
He preached love and to say otherwise is to chose and pick the verses that might suggest otherwise and dismiss the rest.
Quote:
luke 12
51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
luke 14
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Unfortantly if Jesus thought he was GOD then he broke the Ten commandments. If you understand that the messiah is suppose to restore the torah then how can jesus fit if he is teaching us to hate are family and calls himself god.
God in Torah commands us to love Him the most. What Jesus is teaching him is not contrary to His Father's teachings in Torah. A person has to put God first, before his family.
Nice try.
Quote:
John 10
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Deuteronomy 13
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
In Deuteronomy, God is not speaking of Christ, clearly. Simply because Jesus had always emphasized that we are only to worship God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Always - over and over again .You might need to re-read New Testament. Nowhere that Jesus preached rebellion against God, but only reinforced that we must obey God.
Quote:
Numbers 23 19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord, he is G.d in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me.
Isaiah 43:10 I am He, before Me no god was created, neither shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts, I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no god.
Isaiah 45:18 I am the Lord, and there is none else.
Ok, so what's your point? I think we are all in agreement here.
Quote:
john 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him
Isaiah 43:10-11 Before Me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am the Lord, and beside Me there is no saviour.
Exactly - no one can save us besides God, but how do you suppose He saves us?
God calls himself a SAviour in all the verses you listed above and below. He is the Saviour and He will save us thru a sacrifice. Why don't you tell me what the sacrifice is?
Quote:
Isaiah 45:21-22 ... I the Lord, and there is no god else beside Me, a just god and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else.
Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God, and thou shall know no god but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me.
I will Close with this:
Jerm 17: 5 This is what the LORD says:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
Jesus no matter how you discribe him was a MAN. He was son of MAN...wake up and smell the roses. There is no way Jesus was the Messiah.
I used NIV translation from bible gate way.
Why don't you wake up and smell the roses? I still don't get why you got into the whole Messiah debate. Is Messiah NOT suppose to be the Man according to Judaism? Any rabbi will tell you that Messiah will be a human flesh and blood.
ou need to read your own text (bible). Jesus did not preach love.
luke 12
51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
luke 14
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
you are total taking that out of context he not talking about literal hate. he was making a point we must put him first before all things
Unfortantly if Jesus thought he was GOD then he broke the Ten commandments. If you understand that the messiah is suppose to restore the torah then how can jesus fit if he is teaching us to hate are family and calls himself god.
John 10
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
why do not you open the Ot up? isaiah 9:6 about messiah look at one of his names or title mighty God.
Thes messiah by OT says it will be God with us.
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Physical "Gog" = Nebuchadnezzar
