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Old 01-10-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,173,707 times
Reputation: 1533
Originally Posted by Nikk
Quote:
Babel dose mean "confusion", Babelli means "gate of the gods". This is a common play on words found in the bible used in ancient times. "Nebuchadnezer" means "Son of a mule". His name is really "Nebuchadrezer" or "Son of Nebo(the god, nebo). Which shows the Hebrew peoples hatred for this ancient king. Today if you go to Israel they refer to Jesus Christ as "Yeshu" which means "May his name be blotted out forever" Instead of his name "Yeshuah" which means "Yahweh (God) saves". So you can clearly see the play on words that often occurs in the bible.

So at Babelli there was Babel.
I'm beginning to see God more like a trickster.
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:13 PM
 
Location: NC
10,980 posts, read 8,573,136 times
Reputation: 1232
Quote:
The Bible is clear that hell was not meant for man, but for Lucifer (Satan) and the other fallen angels. People end up in hell because when we reject God we cannot spend eternity with him. Since God is everywhere the only place left is Hell with Satan.
Hi, if God is everywhere, then He will be in hell with the lost if you believe that God is everywhere. Jesus is to fill all things.
[quote]

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God does not send people to hell, they send themselves by rejecting God.
Do you believe that people choose to be tortured forever? Many have incorrect perceptions of God and reject that perception, what they understand and the scriptures say that people have been blinded by the god of this age. They are described as being deceived, held captive, lost. How can someone who is blind make an informed decision?
If God sees beginning to end, why would he create a being that would be allowed to deceive the human race and thereby torture the majority for all of eternity?

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God does not torture people. It is Satan and his legions who do the torturing. They hate the image of God so much that they will spend eternity torturing it. Man was created in the image of God. So, the people in hell will receive the brunt of Satans Hatred.
Do you believe that evil will exist forever? Jesus came to destroy the works of satan and all rule, power, and authority is to be abolished by Jesus Christ according to 1 Corinthians 15. How can satan and his legions torture people forever if satan will no longer have any power? God bless.
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Missouri
629 posts, read 681,324 times
Reputation: 280
All you Christians with your different beliefs on the nature of Hell..the nature of God, the nature of Jesus... just prove my point and why I subscribe to none of it. You cant even agree among yourselves on here and you represent a fraction of thousands of sects of Christianity. I say yet again, if there is a God, He is not a very good communicator.
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Old 01-10-2008, 03:30 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,173,707 times
Reputation: 1533
Originally Posted by Ringwielder
Quote:
I say yet again, if there is a God, He is not a very good communicator.
How will you learn anything if you get all the answers to your every question handed to you on a silver platter?

Anywayz, the fact that I disagree with someone makes me extra alert because I want to know why I disagree.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 355,866 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Ringwielder How will you learn anything if you get all the answers to your every question handed to you on a silver platter?

Anywayz, the fact that I disagree with someone makes me extra alert because I want to know why I disagree.
That is interesting actually. Usually we are "handed everything on a silver platter" when we are taught something.

Usually examples are given and explanations are readily available, either from a book or from a teacher.

I don't recall any point in school where a teacher required us to do something like figure out the Pythagorean theorum by trial and error.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:40 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,173,707 times
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Originally Posted by MRiedl
Quote:
That is interesting actually. Usually we are "handed everything on a silver platter" when we are taught something.
I make the distinction between experience and (theoretical) knowledge.
Experience is always knowledge, but knowledge (theory) does not mean experience.
I value experience over knowledge ( who needs a teacher anyway) because I basically learn through trial and error and not theoretical exams.
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Old 01-10-2008, 05:45 PM
 
2,940 posts, read 3,079,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
I say yet again, if there is a God, He is not a very good communicator.
We aren`t good listeners!
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 355,866 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MRiedlI make the distinction between experience and (theoretical) knowledge.
Experience is always knowledge, but knowledge (theory) does not mean experience.
I value experience over knowledge ( who needs a teacher anyway) because I basically learn through trial and error and not theoretical exams.
Education is a mix. First you are told how, then you actually go about doing it.

This is why pilots train in flight simulators before they get into a real plane, or, failing that they learn in trainer aircraft with an instructor and their own set of controls.

Med students operate on cadavers before real patients, and they learn to perform procedures in very specific ways, not through trial and error.

We do it that way with both of these professions because they are matters of extreme importance. They are matters of life and death, so we use our most effective teaching tools to ensure that they know exactly what they are doing before they actually start doing.


I find it rather amusing actually that none of you would expect the same level of care regarding something as significant within your beliefs as avoiding eternal torture (or death if you interpret it that way.)

It's basically the equivalent of giving a surgical intern a scalpel, and saying "Go perform surgeries, but be careful, if you screw up you'll lose your license and get sued."
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:40 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,173,707 times
Reputation: 1533
Originally Posted by MRiedl
Quote:
Education is a mix. First you are told how, then you actually go about doing it.
The thing is I once passed a test about digital and analogue without truly understanding what it all was about (I still don't). I just crammed all the knowledge into my brain without truly understanding it. You don't need to understand a thing to pass a test.
I imagine it would not be that difficult to do this all the way through college.

When it comes to faith my experience is more important than scripture, this is how I learn. I learn about faith by studying myself and human society.
While the human body is mostly always the same, this is not the case in religion. I've come to understand that religion, like art, is not an exact science were 1+1 is always 2. And when it comes to art I'm mostly self-taught.

Quote:
It's basically the equivalent of giving a surgical intern a scalpel, and saying "Go perform surgeries, but be careful, if you screw up you'll lose your license and get sued."
And how did the very first surgeons become surgeons?
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 355,866 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MRiedlThe thing is I once passed a test about digital and analogue without truly understanding what it all was about (I still don't). I just crammed all the knowledge into my brain without truly understanding it. You don't need to understand a thing to pass a test.
In which case you didn't actually learn in the first place, did you?

Quote:
I imagine it would not be that difficult to do this all the way through college.
That depends. To my understanding, most of the high end degrees require you to actually put your understanding to work and discover something new as part of the curriculum.


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And how did the very first surgeons become surgeons?
Surgery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To answer your question as to its intent as opposed to its content, while most skills can eventually be tracked down to trial and error as I am guessing is the point you were aiming for, I think you've forgotten why surgery even came up as an example.

While anyone can grab a scalpel and perform surgery by trial and error, they can't save lives by doing so.

It makes absolutely no sense to require individuals to figure something like that out on their own and in so doing lower the effectiveness of the effort to primative levels when there is the much better option of learning from others.

The difference between one individual trying to learn surgery on their own, brilliant or not, and that same individual who can benefit from the knowledge of those who already possess those skills is obvious.

This is pretty much why we teach things that are important, things in which life and death hang in the balance rather than have people muddle through on their own. Teaching is far more effective.

I would expect a supposedly "perfect" deity to be be effective in all he/she/it did. If one of the goals put forth by said deity would be to protect humans from death, and for some reason required human cooperation in that regard, I would expect them to use the most effective means of doing so, and given we are talking about something that is perfect, I would expect a 100% success rate as far as getting the point across clearly at a minimum.

Otherwise, it is just as incompetent a practice as:

Quote:
giving a surgical intern a scalpel, and saying "Go perform surgeries, but be careful, if you screw up you'll lose your license and get sued."
Basically, trial and error may be where our knowledge comes from, but that doesn't mean it is the best way.
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