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Old 01-06-2008, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,030,540 times
Reputation: 303

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I find it staggering and frightening that supposedly sane, rational, people who believe in Jesus/God and all he stands for, that is summed up in one word, LOVE, can quite happily talk about the fires of hell, an invention of an unspeakably cruel and frightening mind.

The nonchalant, unconcerned, blase way in which born-again Christians almost gleefully consign most of mankind to this horrendous fate can only mean one of two things IMO

1. That they do not REALLY think about just what the fires of hell literally will mean for those of mankind who are unfortunate enough to be sent there. I would be extremely wary of and wanting to avoid any human who preached love and at the same time dreamed up such a concept for torturing anyone who did not want to be his friend. EVERLASTING TORTURE!! The invention of a complete psychopath.

2. That they are mentally unbalanced if they think that there is any crime worthy of this punishment. Dont forget that most of the people that God will send to this dungeon of utter horror will have hardly done anything worse than say they wernt going to be his friends.

Just for the record, I read the following Scripture as meaning that God does not even think about burning people with fire....

"and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind," (Jer. 19:5).

My conclusion is that a loving God and a fiery Hell are incompatible.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,085,793 times
Reputation: 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
...My conclusion is that a loving God and a fiery Hell are incompatible.
And that is the beginning of wisdom.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:46 PM
 
364 posts, read 692,633 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
I find it staggering and frightening that supposedly sane, rational, people who believe in Jesus/God and all he stands for, that is summed up in one word, LOVE, can quite happily talk about the fires of hell, an invention of an unspeakably cruel and frightening mind.

The nonchalant, unconcerned, blase way in which born-again Christians almost gleefully consign most of mankind to this horrendous fate can only mean one of two things IMO

1. That they do not REALLY think about just what the fires of hell literally will mean for those of mankind who are unfortunate enough to be sent there. I would be extremely wary of and wanting to avoid any human who preached love and at the same time dreamed up such a concept for torturing anyone who did not want to be his friend. EVERLASTING TORTURE!! The invention of a complete psychopath.

2. That they are mentally unbalanced if they think that there is any crime worthy of this punishment. Dont forget that most of the people that God will send to this dungeon of utter horror will have hardly done anything worse than say they wernt going to be his friends.

Just for the record, I read the following Scripture as meaning that God does not even think about burning people with fire....

"and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind," (Jer. 19:5).

My conclusion is that a loving God and a fiery Hell are incompatible.

How do you see the lake of fire.

jesus talk more abotu hell then heaven.


Jesus refer hell as a flame that cannot be put out.

there are many different views on hell what is yours?
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,030,540 times
Reputation: 303
I believed as a Jehovah's Witness for more than 40 years that Hell was Sheol and Hades, the common grave... The lake of fire symbolised eternal destruction. How does anything survive in fire? It was used in the Bible in 2 ways, destruction and cleansing. When I lost my faith as a JW I began to examine many teachings of the Bible itself and found only confusion and a plethora of different ideas about a whole host of subjects.

I NOW do not believe the the Bible is inspired of the Bible God, because if it was its message would be a lot clearer and by now, 2000 years later it would have been readily accessible to ALL of mankind. Instead, only an elite fifth of the world, professes to be saved and there are nearly 2000 sects of Christianity, all professing SPECIAL knowledge of the truth of the Bible. Historyasis said that there are many different views of Hell. What was mine, he asked.

I do not believe in Hellfire at all and I am now agnostic. When you are dead, you are dead. Thats it...Jesus said to the disciples that Lazarus was 'sleeping'. They didnt understand, so he told them plainly he was already dead... So he likened death to sleep, unconsciousness. Thats another view that the Bible has and I will go with that one.

Death is the ultimate punishment as it is the opposite of life.

If the view that some have about God torturing souls FOREVER in a burning fire is right, then I have to say that in all sincerity, I would hate and loathe the God of the Bible with all my heart, because He is a monster, a dictator and a total sadist. I cannot think of words strong enough to describe my revulsion of such a being.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 513,647 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringwielder View Post
If the view that some have about God torturing souls FOREVER in a burning fire is right, then I have to say that in all sincerity, I would hate and loathe the God of the Bible with all my heart, because He is a monster, a dictator and a total sadist. I cannot think of words strong enough to describe my revulsion of such a being.
I've had similar thoughts myself regarding the concept of hell, especially regarding Pascals wager.

The view of eternal torture is absolutely sadistic and monstrous, and I don't think I could ever possibly accept a deity which creates such a thing.

Oblivion is what I am expecting anyway, so whether I am right or wrong it wouldn't bother me, especially considering that nothing can bother something that no longer exists.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:53 PM
 
364 posts, read 692,633 times
Reputation: 46
I NOW do not believe the the Bible is inspired of the Bible God, because if it was its message would be a lot clearer and by now, 2000 years later it would have been readily accessible to ALL of mankind.

if this is the case then there are no books inspire by God then.

new or old relgious books no matter what one or how long they been out all of them have conflicts on viewing from their own followers


I think for as long earth is here there always going to be conflicts.

I do not think we are ment to understand everything about God
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,030,540 times
Reputation: 303
Quote:
if this is the case then there are no books inspire by God then.
You didnt address my statement which caused you to say that. I repeat that if the Bible is inspired by God, he is not an effective communicator. God is supposed to be the Creator, all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, all everything...but he cant even deliver a clear, concise, message to His creation and even make sure that all of mankind get to read it!

Quote:
new or old relgious books no matter what one or how long they been out all of them have conflicts on viewing from their own followers
Which strongly suggests they are all man made, man written, doesnt it?

Quote:
I do not think we are ment to understand everything about God
Then dont you think it is the height of cruelty when He threatens us with eternal fire for NOT understanding Him??
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:51 AM
 
4,997 posts, read 13,550,604 times
Reputation: 2400
Ringwelder,

I agree with you on these issues, except to say that I don't believe that a loving God would sent us to an eternal death either. That is another fear tactic that is used, but by the Jehovah's Witnesses. And who doesn't fear death? And what kind of person would send us to hell or eternal death because we couldn't accept Him? Only a dictator does that. The list of things that God has done is criminal.

Here is a list of how many people God has killed, a list that grows longer and longer:

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed?

Quote:
How many people did God kill in the Bible?

It's impossible to say for sure, but plenty. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all.

But sometimes the Bible tells us exactly how many were killed by God. Here's a list of those that I can find. (If you find any that I've missed, let me know and I'll add them to the list.)

So far I come up with a total of 2,270,971 (not including, at least in some cases, women and children).
No one that truly loved mankind would kill this many people and more. Even we who claim to have love but less than God, would not kill our own children, not if we are normal human beings that have a lot of love in our heart. People in our society that do kill on this scale or even larger, like Hitler did, we all consider to be insane and cruel. And even even burned people in a furnace, which in fact makes him more compassionate than God since God has us burning for eternity.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:15 AM
 
Location: NYC
364 posts, read 1,730,340 times
Reputation: 172
The idea of Hell is something we have borrowed from the past, it is a myth. That comes from a time in which people believed in gods, spirits and demons as rulers of the world.

You can find similar images in greek mythology and babylonian history.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:20 AM
 
613 posts, read 1,154,604 times
Reputation: 187
oh confused creatures of materialism how do you interpret existence?
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