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How many people do you know who has never done anything to harm someone else? I'm not necessarily talking about causing serious harm, but I am talking about selfish decisions or a loss of temper that is later regretted? Isn't every person alive looking out for number 1 -- even when his decisions impact somebody else? To me, that's all that is meant by the statement that "human nature is sinful."
Why is self-preservation sinful? I'm asking from a religious standpoint. Why is lust or sloth viewed as wrong and something to be atoned for?
look look look: today i buy this lamp from a store, and suddenly this lamp decieds to self preserves. so my lamp lights sometimes, sometimes goes dim, sometimes bleeping like a christmas tree. so what is this lamp for?
look look look: today i buy this lamp from a store, and suddenly this lamp decieds to self preserves. so my lamp lights sometimes, sometimes goes dim, sometimes bleeping like a christmas tree. so what is this lamp for?
look look look: today i buy this lamp from a store, and suddenly this lamp decieds to self preserves. so my lamp lights sometimes, sometimes goes dim, sometimes bleeping like a christmas tree. so what is this lamp for?
If you insist upon viewing the natural world through the lens of primitive superstition, then sure, the conscience comes from God. Just like thunder is actually angels bowling in Heaven.
Hi Shirina,
I've read many of your posts. I realize that you do not believe in God. That is ok with me. That is your choice for whatever reason. This is the Religion and Spirituality forum. We talk about religion and spirituality here. We have as much right to our opinions as you do to yours. The one constant in your posts is anger. You are so angry. I am sorry for that. Whatever happened to you that made you so angry, I hope you can at least get past the anger. It doesn't hurt me and it certainly doesn't benefit you in any way.
My walk with God is very important to me. It brings me great joy and comfort. If you see that as "primitive superstition", that is ok, too. I believe in "to each his own".
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Originally Posted by Shirina
Additionally, if the conscience comes from God, how do you explain the existence of sociopaths? Do you think God decides randomly to not give certain people a conscience just to stir the pot and watch the ensuing mayhem?
I believe that people are body and soul (conscience). I do think that there are people who do not have a soul. Whether this is by design or not, I don't know. That is a distinct possibility. I think with other people, that "soul" is just not plugged into God. Yet, I do think the soul comes from God.
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Originally Posted by Shirina
Unless God is utterly capricious and malevolent by withholding a conscience from certain individuals, it makes far more sense that having that "little voice" to keep us within the bounds of society is simply an evolutionary advantage to a gregarious species - like humans.
It could very well be an evolutionary advantage. From my understanding of the Bible's creation, there were billions of years in there. Science tells us of evolution. I have no reason to doubt either. They fit well together.
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Originally Posted by Shirina
This bizarre need to pin every unexplained or poorly understood phenomenon on a deity is mind-boggling to me, especially considering religious explanations have never, not once, been proven to be the correct answer. No ... thunder is NOT caused by angels bowling in Heaven.
I understand why you see it as "bizarre". Again, that is ok with me. I don't abide by "religious explanations", so I really don't know to what you are referring.
Thunder is caused by lightening, which super heats the air causing, in effect, a sonic boom. And no, I don't think lightening is caused by God hurling bolts of electricity toward earth.
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Originally Posted by Shirina
Then again, you also said that the Adam and Eve story was true. Heh. To think that there are still people who believe humanity was created magically from a pile of dirt and a rib ... its like visiting an anthropology museum.
In my understanding of the Bible, creation took how ever long it took - some portion of billions of years. Then it was done. At some point after that, and after the world was populated with people and societies, and civilizations, God "formed" a man and called his name Adam. The Bible is the genealogy of Jesus. Therefore, Adam and Eve - wherever they might have come from - were the foundation pair of the Jews - and only the Jews. The Bible is a story of Adam and Eve and their progeny through the years to Jesus. The Bible was about the Jews and their lives and times. It wasn't about anybody else anywhere on the earth. The Bible follows one family - like any other genealogy. This one family grew and split and the Bible follows the line that produced Jesus, the human. The stories in the Bible are about this one family. Many of the stories were handed down verbally from generation to generation, some stories were written down, some were analogy to make a point, some were actual - much like any family genealogy. Jesus was a teacher. Much of the New Testament is about his teachings to the Jews and people in his immediate area.
There was no religion called Christianity until much later when man decided to make it and sell it and coerce people into accepting it. The Bible has been translated and translated again, mistranslated, edited and reedited, and man has had his grubby little hands all over it - sometimes, purely for profit. Luckily, the genealogy stayed intact.
What the religion called Christianity has done with the book, what they say that it says, what they use the book to promote, how they use it to manipulate people, how they use it to make money and on and on, has nothing to do with the book itself. As well, the religion called Christianity much of the time, has very little to do with God, either.
God and those things Godly are separate from science and other worldly endeavors in the hearts of those who believe in God. I have room in my life for both. For me, they coincide very well. It is not an either/or situation. The book is there for anyone who wants to read it. Deciding for one's self is all important.
Each has to figure out what or who he/she is mad at and why. I'm a firm believer that each one must walk his/her own path in life - whether it is to vegan or to God, or away from God. Knowing who or what one is mad at is a start.
lol brother. the bible is full of contracdictions as you read. the thing that the bible really likes to talk about are not the laws; it wants to say was nothing but worshipping Him. see: nope, we r not lamps. He just wants that we worship Him all the times. How else Satan could stay in the paradise? Do you recall the accounts when the most high asked "who would persude the king goes into the battle so the captain would fall?" then one in the assembly said "i will be a lying one to that king". And again: an evil spirit from the LORD go to Saul and troubles the depoded king.
As a son honors his papa, where is My honor?... as a servant fears his master, where is My fear?..... should a rod magnifies itself to who whets it.... see the clue now?
breshi bara elohinum ha heavens? vat ha earth. the first line of the book. in the beginning elohims(multiplies) created the heavens? and the earth. the world was dark and void. the LORD(SINGULAR) over the ****** saying Let there be light. then there was light.
I understand why we view acts that harm others for personal benefit as sinful. I'm asking why are certain things that harm no one viewed as sinful?
"Sin" and man's laws are the same, but different. geez. Man's laws were formed for a better society - supposedly. "Sin" is of the spiritual world. "Sin" comes with the idea that there is forgiveness. Generally, man's laws come with punishment. Having said that...
I don't necessarily think that if one is starving and one steals, it is a sin - not an unforgivable one anyway. Man's law says it is wrong under any circumstances. One would probably go to jail.
Coveting is one of the 10 commandants. So, it is considered a "sin" in religious circles. Coveting hurts the person who is doing the coveting. The idea is that if one spends all of one's time looking at someone else with envy or lust or greed, then that one cannot be grateful for what he/she has. If one is looking at another with envy, lust, or greed, then one can fall into a life of "sin" trying to get the things he/she covets. If one's heart is filled with coveting, it can't be filled with God.
Again, lust hurts the person who does the lusting. Lust does not lead to anything productive, unless you act on that lust. It preys on the mind and the feelings intensify. You come to a point where the feelings which lust produce must be acted upon. Lust hurts. The desires are maddening. They can overtake your mind. Whether you lust for the physical body of another or the thrill of betting at the race track, or for a diamond ring you can't afford, etc., sooner or later that lust has to manifest itself or it will drive you crazy. Also, if lust fills your heart, then godly things can't (that is the religious viewpoint)
Off hand I can't think of a "sin" that doesn't hurt somebody. Sometimes we only hurt ourselves - but that is still "somebody". From a religious point of view, hurting yourself is as bad as hurting someone else.
Yes. After. Maybe a long time after. That's not what church teaches. Yet, from reading and studying the Bible, that is how I interpret it.
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Man's laws were formed for a better society - supposedly. "Sin" is of the spiritual world. "Sin" comes with the idea that there is forgiveness. Generally, man's laws come with punishment. Having said that...
