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In what ways do you live differently than I do? My point is other than specific religious observances, there is often no practical difference between the morality in action of a "True" believer, a "nominal" believer and a non-believer.
-NoCapo
I honestly don't know how you live. I'm sure you're a fairly nice person. I would probably not have an issue if I met you in real life. But in ways we differ? I share my faith and evangelize. I believe that without Christ one will not get into heaven.
Besides the differences in life between you and me....I believe we are seeing a gradual slide of morality. 100 years ago a 2 piece bathing suit was crazy...now Christians and non-Christians alike accept it. 30 years ago the idea of a movie containing the "f-word" being any less than rated "R" was ridicoulous. Now....it's commonplace. Now...it's not unheard of to see nudity on network tv. It's not uncommon of to see full frontal nudity on cable tv.
The big one right now is homosexuality. A mere 20 years ago it was considered strange, or "*****" or shameful. Now...we are labeled bigots or hatemongers if we dare to suggest it's immoral.
Or how about the attitude toward marriage at all? The number of couples actually getting married is sharply declining. In a previous generation, one waited for marriage to have sex...now couples get engaged after being together 5 years and having 3 kids...if at all.
<edit> Apparently the "q" word describing a gay person is not allowed. It wasn't my intent to use a word considered bad.
I honestly don't know how you live. I'm sure you're a fairly nice person. I would probably not have an issue if I met you in real life. But in ways we differ? I share my faith and evangelize. I believe that without Christ one will not get into heaven.
Besides the differences in life between you and me....I believe we are seeing a gradual slide of morality. 100 years ago a 2 piece bathing suit was crazy...now Christians and non-Christians alike accept it. 30 years ago the idea of a movie containing the "f-word" being any less than rated "R" was ridicoulous. Now....it's commonplace. Now...it's not unheard of to see nudity on network tv. It's not uncommon of to see full frontal nudity on cable tv.
The big one right now is homosexuality. A mere 20 years ago it was considered strange, or "*****" or shameful. Now...we are labeled bigots or hatemongers if we dare to suggest it's immoral.
Or how about the attitude toward marriage at all? The number of couples actually getting married is sharply declining. In a previous generation, one waited for marriage to have sex...now couples get engaged after being together 5 years and having 3 kids...if at all.
<edit> Apparently the "q" word describing a gay person is not allowed. It wasn't my intent to use a word considered bad.
One person's "slide of morality" is another's indication of progress.
Excerpt:
"The common trend between the conservative South and the highly censored Muslim world raises the question of whether forbidden fruit really does taste sweeter."
I honestly don't know how you live. I'm sure you're a fairly nice person. I would probably not have an issue if I met you in real life. But in ways we differ? I share my faith and evangelize. I believe that without Christ one will not get into heaven.
Precisely! The differences between us are not in our behavior, generally speaking. They are not in how we love our neighbors, or how we care for widows and orphans. They are in our politics, personal beliefs, and private religious observances. It seems to me that all the things you distinguish yourself from unbelievers or less-than-acceptable Christians, (i.e. points of doctrine, political beliefs, man-made traditions and conventions) fall into the category of "...foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law...", which the Bible calls, " ... unprofitable and useless."
I honestly don't know how you live. I'm sure you're a fairly nice person. I would probably not have an issue if I met you in real life. But in ways we differ? I share my faith and evangelize. I believe that without Christ one will not get into heaven.
Besides the differences in life between you and me....I believe we are seeing a gradual slide of morality. 100 years ago a 2 piece bathing suit was crazy...now Christians and non-Christians alike accept it. 30 years ago the idea of a movie containing the "f-word" being any less than rated "R" was ridicoulous. Now....it's commonplace. Now...it's not unheard of to see nudity on network tv. It's not uncommon of to see full frontal nudity on cable tv.
The big one right now is homosexuality. A mere 20 years ago it was considered strange, or "*****" or shameful. Now...we are labeled bigots or hatemongers if we dare to suggest it's immoral.
Or how about the attitude toward marriage at all? The number of couples actually getting married is sharply declining. In a previous generation, one waited for marriage to have sex...now couples get engaged after being together 5 years and having 3 kids...if at all.
<edit> Apparently the "q" word describing a gay person is not allowed. It wasn't my intent to use a word considered bad.
As a gay, married man with 2 kids and 18 years of monogamy under my belt, I strongly disagree that it was a better world to shame gay people into hiding. It was oppression and bigotry! And as far as the way people dress, I have little issue, although if I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her, as a child or teen, to be dressing the way I see some girls dress.
But we'd probably agree in other areas. As a parent, I'm sick of having to quickly change the radio station because a nearly x-rated song comes on. Or when my kids hear cuss words on commercials for shows, during prime time. Or that some prime time shows (Two and a Half Men comes to mind) would have been Rated R in the 80s.
As a gay, married man with 2 kids and 18 years of monogamy under my belt, I strongly disagree that it was a better world to shame gay people into hiding. It was oppression and bigotry! And as far as the way people dress, I have little issue, although if I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her, as a child or teen, to be dressing the way I see some girls dress.
You are free to disagree with me. But this is one point that illustrates the shifting societal view of morality.
Quote:
But we'd probably agree in other areas. As a parent, I'm sick of having to quickly change the radio station because a nearly x-rated song comes on. Or when my kids hear cuss words on commercials for shows, during prime time. Or that some prime time shows (Two and a Half Men comes to mind) would have been Rated R in the 80s.
Precisely! The differences between us are not in our behavior, generally speaking. They are not in how we love our neighbors, or how we care for widows and orphans. They are in our politics, personal beliefs, and private religious observances. It seems to me that all the things you distinguish yourself from unbelievers or less-than-acceptable Christians, (i.e. points of doctrine, political beliefs, man-made traditions and conventions) fall into the category of "...foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law...", which the Bible calls, " ... unprofitable and useless."
-NoCapo
Yes--we can agree that those charitable things are great to do, and should be done. But Christianity teaches a different kind of life than a secularist. Even things such as euthanasia, or abortion are classic examples. The "godless", or secuarlists....have different views of things than we do, and this will result in a different view of life, and morality.
Yes--we can agree that those charitable things are great to do, and should be done. But Christianity teaches a different kind of life than a secularist. Even things such as euthanasia, or abortion are classic examples. The "godless", or secuarlists....have different views of things than we do, and this will result in a different view of life, and morality.
But it is interesting to me that your "worldview" and not the fruit of the spirit, love, compassion or service to others is how you draw the dividing line. Seems a little strange to me that "true" Christianity ends up being about politics and the use of government to coerce others, instead of about, well the stuff Jesus taught...
-NoCapo
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