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Old 02-16-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
Reputation: 3222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Now you are being rude. For no reason. A prime example of what I am saying to you. You want to bring me to the word, not alienate me, or chastise me for something I may not have had clarity on. Instead of clarifying, you respond with rudeness.

Practice..... practice..... repeat.
How is it rude? You clearly misunderstood the question. I am asking that you read and understand what I am saying before you respond. You keep responding and not answering the questions. To me that is disingenuous and you are proving that you aren't open to a real discussion, that you are just here to start trouble. So which is it, do you want to have a real discussion or not? You answered my question with a question that completely changes the topic. I want you to answer my question first, then I will answer yours.
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:56 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,595,980 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post

Do Christians try to pass laws to kill gays? If she lived in a country like Saudia Arabia, then intolerant would have a much different meaning here.
Uganda passed such a bill. God fearing Christians in this country supported this.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:00 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,595,980 times
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Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
H..........
I want you to answer my question first, then I will answer yours.
I heard your foot stomp. So did God.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:06 PM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,341,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
The language that you used basically suggested that I had to do what you said, or else it was evidence I don't care. It's called manipulation. Just because I don't do what you suggest, doesn't mean I don't care. I think what you have posted is ignorant, manipulative and childish. If you want to give a suggestion, give one without trying to imply where someone feelings are. That tells me that you are only here to argue, not to give a real suggestion.
I think it IS evidence you don't care. But I'm not demanding that you have to care. How is that ignorant, manipulative or childish?
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I feel like this has already been answered quite a bit, but I'll try again.


While I don't like door-knocking or street evangelism, it is not a huge deal to me. I think it is ineffective and obnoxious, but whatever.

I actually have more of a problem with family and friends trying to witness. When people with whom you have a relationship try to convert, save, or otherwise "fix" you, it puts you in a very bad position. You don't want to argue with them, it may damage the relationship, but you also don't want to lie to them or betray your own conscience. Plus you may be worried about the repercussions of honesty. My atheism has damaged relationships in my extended family, because they don't feel the same way about me, now that I have "fallen away" or am "one of them". I am not interested in flaunting my atheism or arguing about it, but when friends or family try to "minister" to me and do not take a hint to drop it, they are forcing me into a bad spot. I resent having to tiptoe around their insecurities, so as not to cause problems.

Plus, it makes me feel as though I am not important to them, only me religion. If my not being a Christian is enough to make them attack me, argue with me, or ostracize me, clearly the relationship was not very good to start with. But this attitude is much easier to take with friends as opposed to family. Just because my family is pushy and hyper-religious doesn't mean I want to just walk away, they are family!
I hear what you are saying but you have to see this from a different perspective and you would understand this more than most since you have actually spent time in the church. So you have a family member, that doesn't live their life right, they make bad decision or perhaps they make a decision that you don't agree with. As a family member do you just ignore it, just to avoid conflict, or do you try to help them and give them what you believe is life changing information? I personally would be offended if my family didn't step in if I didn't treat my children right or if I got an addiction of some sorts. I think there is a line that you have to draw where you realize that some people won't change, but is that your issue? Is it the constant interaction that bothers you or the fact that they do it at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I think here the difference is in intent. I like discussion, I do not like being witnessed to, preached at, or whatever you want to call it. A discussion between equals, where the goal is understanding is great, online or in person. A conversation where the goal is conversion, is not welcome. If I wanted what you were selling I would ask. If we want to talk about what you think or believe, and I am allowed to talk about what I believe without damaging the relationship, great. I am all for it. People leveraging friendship, charity, or familial relationships to pressure me into changing my beliefs is not welcome at all!

Does that help explain where I (and evidently many others) are coming from?

-NoCapo
But aren't you assuming that anytime the topic is brought up, that you are being witnessed to? Is that fair? I have had discussion with acquaintances, that I don't have any other purpose to respond to them other than to share why I think what they said is wrong. Maybe some of the people around you have accepted that you believe something different. I believe one thing that is brought up in evangelism, is 'planting a seed'. Just because I am around you doesn't mean I am trying to convert you. Just because I have a conversation with you about religion doesn't mean I am trying to convert you. Maybe some of those individuals have truly moved on I can't say, but everyone that have these discussions with you may not be as you describe. Your description comes off as though you have been hurt or betrayed.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:09 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
My opinion, based on no one actually producing any. Proof is for math, evidence is for the rest of life. Every argument I have seen boils down to, "Its icky, I am uncomfortable with it." (Not a rational reason, just preference) or "Its icky, God doesn't like it." (religion) I would welcome someone demonstrating a different take on the issue. Want to take a stab at it?

-NoCapo
So you can't definitively say if people vote based on their religious beliefs not so why should we take this conjecture as evidence as others are doing? If you can't prove it, then don't present it as a fact, that's all I'm saying.

Your anecdotal evidence, nor anyone else's, proves proof of how people think.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:20 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,777,934 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
So you can't definitively say if people vote based on their religious beliefs not so why should we take this conjecture as evidence as others are doing? If you can't prove it, then don't present it as a fact, that's all I'm saying.

Your anecdotal evidence, nor anyone else's, proves proof of how people think.
I notice that you have not stated your position, nor why you hold it... Is there a reason you don't want to talk about that?

You are right, I cannot definitively state that opposition to gay marriage is due to Christianity. I can however make a very good case for it. The majority of Christian denominations in the U.S. hold that homosexuality is a sin. Most will not perform homosexual marriages because of this. Most of the rhetoric used to oppose gay marriage implicity appeals to this, for example the use of "traditional marriage", or the explicit statements like "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" It is very clear that most of the public rhetoric is based on these religious ideas.

To compound that, I have yet to hear anyone, much less a vocal majority, express any non-religious, rational reasons to deny homosexuals the right to marry. So in the presence of a lot of evidence that it is religious in nature, and a lack of evidence that it is not, it is a reasonable assumption that most opposition to gay marriage is religious in nature.

-NoCapo
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:20 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Uganda passed such a bill. God fearing Christians in this country supported this.
1. Proof? Everything I have seen showed it was proposed, rejected and proposed again. I haven't seen anything saying that the law has passed
2. Does that mean that Christians supported it? You are equating a government/parliament act to a majority? The fact that it was proposed by government, doesn't support your point.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:39 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I think it IS evidence you don't care. But I'm not demanding that you have to care. How is that ignorant, manipulative or childish?
Because what you believe doesn't mean anything. I know what I believe and I know what I care about. To suggest that because I don't do what you want I don't care is just plain ridiculous. You don't know me, so just leave it alone. Let's move on because don't want this to turn heated.
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:42 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,945,108 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
I heard your foot stomp. So did God.
ok
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