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Certainly I do . Unlike you I actually back up my opinions.
And I back up my opinions with supporting evidence. Here I'll do it again right now:
"METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics. RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention."
And I back up my opinions with supporting evidence. Here I'll do it again right now:
"METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics. RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention."
Subjects with no religious affiliation were more often lifetime suicide attempters, reported more suicidal ideation, and were more likely to have first-degree relatives who had committed suicide than religiously affiliated subjects.
The religiously affiliated and unaffiliated subjects did not differ in terms of gender, race, education, or income. Religiously unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, and less often had children. Religiously affiliated subjects reported a more family-oriented social network, reflected in more time spent with first-degree relatives. In contrast, most unaffiliated subjects (74.3%) reported more nonfamilial relationships (friends and others)
Linear stepwise regressions with suicidal ideation as the dependent variable showed that of the demographic variables, age was significant (β=–0.182, t=–2.9, p=0.003), whereas marital status, parental status, and social network were not. Of the clinical variables, linear stepwise regression analysis showed that aggression (β=0.218, t=3.6, p<0.001) and responsibility to family (β=–0.23, t=–3.7, p<0.001) were significant, whereas history of past substance abuse, BPRS score, impulsivity, and child-related concerns were not significant. The final model with suicidal ideation as the outcome variable and age, aggression, responsibility to family, religious affiliation, and moral objections to suicide as the independent variables revealed that high aggression scores, low moral objections to suicide, and younger age were significantly and independently associated with suicidal ideation. Religious affiliation and responsibility to family were not
To me, this screams family issues. A person who has a relatively stable home-life doesn't just go out and commit suicide.
Also, this study contradicts points brought out by other studies:
Both of which point out that older people have a higher tenancy of suicide than youth.
This entire study points out that younger people were more likely to be nonreligious and more likely to commit suicide, which isn't consistent with other studies saying middle aged men are most likely to commit suicide.
I'm not disagreeing with the study, but that it's odd their finding isn't like any of the other findings.
And I back up my opinions with supporting evidence. Here I'll do it again right now:
"METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics. RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention."
But your teachings actually CAUSE suicide among gay and lesbian youth. The ReligionTolerance website reports---
-----we believe that churches can be conservatively assigned indirect responsibility for about 496 youth gay/lesbian suicides per year. This rate is greater than the witch genocide rate in Western Europe during the witch burning times in the late Middle Ages and Rennaisance.
If we include:
suicides by homosexuals over the age of 24,
youth suicides which are reported as accidents,
the additional deaths from STDs due to lack of sex-education in the schools (which is often kept out by influence by religious groups and the federal government)
then the churches' responsibility is much greater.
-------------
It further reports LOWER suicide rates among homosexual youth raised in both the United Church of Christ and the United Church of Christ in Canada which both provided specific gay/lesbian educational courses to help those young people understand themselves.
So now we have two questions for you to dodge.
1) What are YOU doing to halt faith flight caused by your kind of religious beliefs, and,
2) What are YOU going to do to mitigate the number of homosexual suicides in which your beliefs are complicit?
Sorry but this is a gross distortion. A look back at the beginning of this thread shows this:
#4 - I start by posting a counter point about suicide rate with back up link and graph evidence.
#7 - I offer more support for the suicide point, and post a quote about the hopelessness of atheism.
#11 - comment that fundamentalists are not intelligent.
#22 - I make a point about logic and reason.
#29 - comment that God is petty and little
#30 - now a direct personal comment against me
I only point this out because the progression clearly shows that it was not me who steered the conversation into something negative and personal. I offered up a lot of replies defending my position particular on the nature of God in the OT. So that doesn't fit your narrrative that I am only soapboxing here and not defending my beliefs. I will defend my beliefs to the core, but when the audience like you demonstrates an unwillingness to listen, why should I bother?
Can you offer up a single instance where you respected a Christian defending their beliefs here?
But your point about logic and reason were not using logic and reason, simply dismissing them as dangerous in a situation which is unlikely to happen.
Logic and reason do not resolve issues of morality. Let's say 50 years in the future, there is no religion. Resources are very limited vs the human population. The government decides logically that it is better to preserve the majority rather than everyone suffer. A new law is created putting to death any elderly, disabled or weak person who can not contribute to society. Hey, it's logical!
If history teaches us anything, man operating outside of God's righteousness can be quite cruel to each other.
When you bring up how wonderful and loving your God is why is it wrong for others to point out that this is not the case in our eyes. You wish for us to ignore the parts of the Bible that do not support your view and only accept the parts of the Bible you beleive support your arguement? History also teachs us that religious people can be quite cruel to each other. So what?
But your teachings actually CAUSE suicide among gay and lesbian youth. The ReligionTolerance website reports---
-----we believe that churches can be conservatively assigned indirect responsibility for about 496 youth gay/lesbian suicides per year. This rate is greater than the witch genocide rate in Western Europe during the witch burning times in the late Middle Ages and Rennaisance.
Blanket statements like this are hard to dispute because you don't go into any specifics. Exactly what teachings? Suicide is often a product of hopelessness and a lack of self worth. My faith teaches hope and the value of every human being as a unique creation from God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
If we include:
suicides by homosexuals over the age of 24,
youth suicides which are reported as accidents,
the additional deaths from STDs due to lack of sex-education in the schools (which is often kept out by influence by religious groups and the federal government)
then the churches' responsibility is much greater.
-------------
It further reports LOWER suicide rates among homosexual youth raised in both the United Church of Christ and the United Church of Christ in Canada which both provided specific gay/lesbian educational courses to help those young people understand themselves.
So now we have two questions for you to dodge.
1) What are YOU doing to halt faith flight caused by your kind of religious beliefs, and,
2) What are YOU going to do to mitigate the number of homosexual suicides in which your beliefs are complicit?
The suicides are often a result of rejection and bullying especially in schools. Now if it is Christian youth doing this, then the churches have failed to install values of human compassion and love for others. Pastors should then focus on sermons that promote these values.
The problem is you want a watered down Christianity that evolves and custom molds to whatever is currently popular or accepted in society. That way more people would go to back to church, right? But God and His standards never change. It's your kind of modern thinking that has led to such things as swinger churches.
Blanket statements like this are hard to dispute because you don't go into any specifics. Exactly what teachings? Suicide is often a product of hopelessness and a lack of self worth. My faith teaches hope and the value of every human being as a unique creation from God.
Your religion teaches that all people are fundamentally evil and bound for hell, if not for an act of cosmic human sacrifice / child abuse.
Blanket statements like this are hard to dispute because you don't go into any specifics. Exactly what teachings? Suicide is often a product of hopelessness and a lack of self worth. My faith teaches hope and the value of every human being as a unique creation from God.
The suicides are often a result of rejection and bullying especially in schools. Now if it is Christian youth doing this, then the churches have failed to install values of human compassion and love for others. Pastors should then focus on sermons that promote these values.
The problem is you want a watered down Christianity that evolves and custom molds to whatever is currently popular or accepted in society. That way more people would go to back to church, right? But God and His standards never change. It's your kind of modern thinking that has led to such things as swinger churches.
If your religion had ant Good News people would be flocking to it. They are not. They're fleeing.
Instead, the fastest growing religious "organizations" are small home-based groups that want nothing to do with any denomination nor the fundamentalist cult.
You really need to get your nose in a few books beside the Bible, and spend a little time studying the research results of conservative Christian George Barna whose research shows your cultic beliefs responsible for faith flight.
You haven't reflected a fully developed educated thought yet while still dodging the question--
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THE FAITH FLIGHT YOUR RELIGIOUS CULT IS CAUSING?
You have no Good News and neither have you any adequate response.
Instead, the fastest growing religious "organizations" are small home-based groups that want nothing to do with any denomination nor the fundamentalist cult............
.
I met a group of young people a few months ago. They got together and rented a store front in the worst part of the city. There are enough of them to handle the over head. They spend their time feeding the hungry after services, twice a week.
It is faith and outreach at it's finest. They all put in a long week at their jobs, and make time for the community.
Last edited by mensaguy; 03-06-2015 at 05:21 PM..
Reason: fixed quote tag
I met a group of young people a few months ago. They got together and rented a store front in the worst part of the city. There are enough of them to handle the over head. They spend their time feeding the hungry after services, twice a week.
It is faith and outreach at it's finest. They all put in a long week at their jobs, and make time for the community.
Folks like that exhibit the best of human-kind.
(As long as the food they distribute isn't based on the recipient having to endure a windy sermon/bible reading in order to qualify.)
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. Unlike you I actually back up my opinions.
