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I'm pointing them out to show what a cheap shot Vizio's throwaway comment was.
When a preacher throws this particular axiom out I like to point out that at least teachers don't have to resort to theatrics in their delivery.
And the content of a teachers discussion is actually designed to enhance the learner's knowledge as opposed to getting them to toss dollar bills in an offering plate.
Yes, I'm proud to be more arrogant in my moral values than some make believe omnipotent, anthropomorphic invisible entity.
Very proud in fact.
Bold words, but at the end of the day, you still have no proof that God does not exist. I have dozens of proofs to support my faith. You have nothing but wishful thinking.
Logic and reason do not resolve issues of morality.
This is very true, and the main reason why it is essential, in light of the reasonable and inevitable demotion of myth-based belief, that religions devoid of reliance on the supernatural develop and evolve to serve this essential role in human society. If anything, traditional religions, by doggedly trying to hold onto their unwarranted power over people, are causing a build-up of pressure, that when released will be explosive and thereby damaging. Everything we can do to reduce that pressure, by providing a smoother glide-path from myth-based belief to reality-based belief is a substantial service to humanity. Atheists have done themselves and humanity a disservice by abandoning the humane in favor of the cold, calculating, logical. Each has its place. The problem with religion was not its humanity but rather just its irrational reliance on ancient stories and obsolete dogma. It is essential to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
Just to the people who can only see in black & white.
Logic is black and white. If you're seeing shades of gray with regard to humane matters, valuing other humans because they are human just like you, then you're engaging in religious belief. There is no need to acknowledge or accept it - it is enough to do it.
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn
What an awesome example of the fundamentalist mindset. They got what they deserved!! Wow, thanks for putting that out there Jeff. You did more for the argument against fundamentalism then I could with a thousand posts.
Good point. Reveling in the misery of others, even against the most despicable people, is bereft of moral foundation. This really shows the reason why myth-based religion is, and should be, dying. The corruption borne of thousands of years of intellectual and spiritual complacency have turned many institutions devoted to ancient religions into little more than petty power-plays focused on being insular rather than inclusive, focused on being provincial rather than expansive, focused on being special instead of being compassionate, focused on keeping score rather than practicing loving-kindness.
Oh really? Then why aren't you in Norway or Sweden collecting your Nobel Prize in theology right now instead of posting on a forum?
Also, having proof of your faith is an oxymoron ... besides simply being absurd.
Except it is not. Apparently you think Christians follow a complete blind faith and just hope in the end that they are correct. The reality is a born again Christian who truly seeks God will experience many things in the spiritual or supernatural realm. No way is this a figment of their imagination.
You're mistaken, but I acknowledge your right to persist in the mythology you've chosen to ground your life in. As long as you keep the impact of that constrained to your own body, your own family and your own worship, I'll defend your right to do so. If the consequences of your doing so stray into other people's bodies, other people's families or other people's worship, or if you seek to assert that your mythology allows you to treat people who abide different beliefs differently in the public arena, you'll have to face righteous repudiation of the indefensible actions you take in that regard.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Bold words, but at the end of the day, you still have no proof that God does not exist. I have dozens of proofs to support my faith. You have nothing but wishful thinking.
Negatives can't be proven.
You can't prove Thor, Mazda, Quetzalcoatl or Zeus don't exist. Mazda had been around a lot longer than Yahweh.
BTW, a faith can not be proven either, it is just a believe.
Logic and reason do not resolve issues of morality. Let's say 50 years in the future, there is no religion. Resources are very limited vs the human population. The government decides logically that it is better to preserve the majority rather than everyone suffer. A new law is created putting to death any elderly, disabled or weak person who can not contribute to society. Hey, it's logical!
If history teaches us anything, man operating outside of God's righteousness can be quite cruel to each other.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is not immorality. The example you have provided is of a group of people making a familiar choice....sacrificing some to save the majority. You of course selected a most gruesome practice, the extreme end of these sorts of choices which get made all the time, hoping to prevail by making the particular choice especially unacceptable, but the same morality applies.
Logic and reason solve moral problems all the time....what exactly do you think is the function of our courts if not to apply logic and reason to arrive at justice? Do you advocate courts which abandon logic and reason in favor of emotional hysteria? The end product of the sort of justice system you seem to be advocating would be the Salem Witch Trials where emotionalism prevails over logic and reason.
Last edited by Grandstander; 02-28-2015 at 07:31 AM..
Logic and reason do not resolve issues of morality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Logic is black and white. If you're seeing shades of gray with regard to humane matters, valuing other humans because they are human just like you, then you're engaging in religious belief.
Isn't one of the goals of US public education to teach children and adolescents how to be good citizens? Using logic and reason to examine the gray areas is called critical thinking. Because of the separation of church and state, schools are supposed to help develop critical thinking skills not tied to religious belief. You know... something about the common good so we can all live together and function as a cooperative society in a democracy.
The Common Core has an emphasis on critical thinking. Teaching this skill without it basing it on religion is why it is so threatening to some religious factions.
God forbid, ha ha, that we raise a bunch of critical thinkers all the way through college and let them choose whether or not to have religious beliefs. And then, if they choose to be religious, we let them choose their whatever religious beliefs they want.
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