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Old 03-12-2015, 06:17 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 6,966,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Testimonies mean squat, as it is only how that person feel; that doesn't prove anything.

Apparently you do know or chose not to comment about the votes stacking or about the financial issues recorded. is

Is there a reason why?
With regards to vote stacking at Australian Idol I can't comment on that. Yet the winner has released hit singles that topped the secular charts in Australia. Plus the lasted news about him is he is going to represent Australia in Eurovision this year and this year will be the first time Australia has sent a contestant there.

Here is the annual report for Hillsong and it lists about the finances:
http://hillsong.com/media/1299193/an...4v27-lores.pdf

In addition here is the details of the Senior Pastor of Hillsong:
My total personal income from Hillsong Church in its entirety is just on $150,000 including fringe benefits plus currently the use of a Holden Caprice, along with just over another $150,000 from Leadership Ministries which makes up my complete personal income

In regards to him in regards to tax:


Hillsong Church pastors pay personal income tax and in fact pay more in taxation than they would otherwise be legally obliged to. We do not rely on the full tax exemptions that other religious organisations rely upon in the conduct of their affairs and that are legally available to us.

The article also goes into other Q and A answers.
https://signposts02.wordpress.com/20...swers-critics/
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,032,368 times
Reputation: 21238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veneficus View Post
Liturgical Latin can be learned easily enough.

English is a spectacularly ugly language for liturgical purposes.

For over a millennia we were called the Latin Church for obvious reasons.

I have no desire to "participate" in the Mass as it is in the Novus Ordo form. Simply being there grates on the nerves and assaults the senses.

It is so Protestant I may as well go back to the Presbyterian church of my youth.

The "contemporary" music (ugh) was likely just as awful in the 1970's when it was written as it is now.

No kneelers. The altar looks like it was purchased from Ikea. No incense. Ambience matters.

And last but not least holding hands during Lords Prayer. WTF.
You have provided a list of personal preferences. The question however was how conducting services in a language which almost no one understands, make it more "meaningful and significant?" The above index of your personal tastes fails to answer that.

If President Obama delivered the State of the Union address in old English, would that make it more meaningful or would that make it completely incomprehensible?

Your complaint about not liking the way English sounds when employed for liturgical purposes suggests that there is greater value in having something incomprehensible sweep you away emotionally than there is in the audience member receiving and understanding the meaning of what is being said. I'm confident that the great propagandists of history would agree with this, I do not. I also don't think anyone is getting swept away by the beauty of the Latin. I think that it is perceived as background noise while they are thinking about something else.
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:32 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,249,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
Meanwhile my Church in Australia has planted 2 Churches not so long ago in the USA. They Hillsong New York and Hillsong LA. I hear Hillsong New York is one of the biggest Churches in New York today.

In regards to Hillsong New York:
Now, a largely young crowd of 7,000 people line up to attend.
New York City's Hillsong megachurch draws thousands every Sunday - CBS News

In addition there was quite a big turn out for the first official service of Hillsong LA.

In my very church in Australia every week there are new people that give their life to Jesus Christ.
Yeah, and they are dwarfed by the people leaving the church. So what exactly is your point?
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
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Apropos of some of the above:

I became an altar boy when the Catholic Mass was said in Latin, and remained one during the changeover to English.

I mourned the change. Suddenly, the mystery was over. It was a bit like seeing a magician from behind. It was probably the first domino to fall that eventually toppled my faith a scant few years later.

I'm also the only person you "know" who took Latin for 5 years in high school.*



*The biggest advantage to that over the years came when doing crossword puzzles. Knowing the Latin roots of many words makes most crosswords easy-peasy.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:02 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 6,966,420 times
Reputation: 2261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
Yeah, and they are dwarfed by the people leaving the church. So what exactly is your point?
The OP has created quite a number of threads like took if you look clearly like this. The op seems to have an obsession with that topic.
Here are a number of threads the OP also created recently:
Reload this Page Changing times:White Christians minority in 19 States
Changing times:White Christians minority in 19 States

From Christian to unchurched to atheist, the trend accelerates
From Christian to unchurched to atheist, the trend accelerates

Good News: religion less relevant to college students, lowest in 50 years religion less relevant to college students, lowest in 50 years

Anyway I am responding on what has happened in my church and even though more and more people abandon faith in God, still churches are still being planted and gain a lot of new members. Obviously it not the only Church that is gaining a lot of new members due to Church planting, but not all churches are dying in membership.

Last edited by other99; 03-12-2015 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:08 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,249,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
The OP has created quite a number of threads like took if you look clearly like this. The op seems to have an obsession with that topic. Anyway I am responding on what has happened in my church and even though more and more people abondon faith in God, still churches are still being planted and gain a lot of new members.
If you head outside of Western Countries that is true. There is a lot of growth in Africa and parts of Asia. In western countries you are hard pressed to see new churches being built that are not very small. And those churches typically just get people from other churches. There are not a lot of new converts in the west these days.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:24 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 6,966,420 times
Reputation: 2261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
If you head outside of Western Countries that is true. There is a lot of growth in Africa and parts of Asia. In western countries you are hard pressed to see new churches being built that are not very small. And those churches typically just get people from other churches. There are not a lot of new converts in the west these days.
No there is not a lot of new converts but my Church does every week have new converts. Besides I have assisted in the New Christian division of the Church so I know this.

We live in a Post Christian society and there are now different ways to reach to the unsaved in society, than compared to the past. Most people are not interested in going to Church out there but it states that the message of Jesus must be reached to all nations:

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14

I think it is great that people outside western countries are are turning to Christ and asking him to be their personal saviour.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
...snip...

I think it is great that people outside western countries are are turning to Christ and asking him to be their personal saviour.
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the folks in Africa and other 3rd-world nations who are "turning to Christ and asking him etc..." are doing so largely because the people asking/suggesting/demanding they do so, are also the ones with food and medical supplies to distribute -- food and supplies of which the natives are in desperate need.

Somehow, I don't think it's coincidence....
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:30 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,249,275 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the folks in Africa and other 3rd-world nations who are "turning to Christ and asking him etc..." are doing so largely because the people asking/suggesting/demanding they do so, are also the ones with food and medical supplies to distribute -- food and supplies of which the natives are in desperate need.

Somehow, I don't think it's coincidence....
Well that has always been the case. Once those start being provided by better jobs and society then the church begins to decline.
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
Well that has always been the case. Once those start being provided by better jobs and society then the church begins to decline.
Which leaves hope for the American South.

Sorta.
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