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Old 04-08-2015, 04:14 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
Reputation: 2227

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Creepies, Vizio, you've set up one of those self canceling logical circles with the above. Either things were inevitable, or they were not. If they were inevitable, then there was no choice made later, that is by definition of the word inevitable.

So, if god later made a choice not to back out, then it had to have always been optional, not per-ordained, again, by definition of the words.

So, you are trying to have it both ways with the above mush, and of course actually winding up having it no way at all as a consequence.

You produced nothing but a foolish, self contradicting statement, so of course Snowball would rush in and proclaim it genius.
Snowball has shown that he (she?) is not that knowledgeable regarding what she (he?) claims to believe...So, it makes sense that this type of response would occur...
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Old 04-08-2015, 05:52 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,969,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He is God. He determined before time began that he would do this. He COULD have backed out when he was on earth, but he chose not to.
The Scriptures say God sent His Son into the world, not to judge the world but so that the world will be saved.

Since God sent His Son, His Son is not God. His Son is the Son of God. God did not send Himself into the world to die for the sins of the world. He sent His Son. His Son willingly went.

He Son wanted to know if there was another way rather than "drinking the cup" of suffering and death. Then He said to God "Not my will but Thine be done."
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Old 04-08-2015, 06:00 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,969,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I think it's all just a cycle that never ends, and our lives aren't even real, everything just set in motion like an ancient film.

There are a billion earths all inhabited where a son of God is sent to do the same exact thing that was done on this earth.
The Scriptures show us that God is making peace through the blood of Christ's cross so that ALL in the heavens and all on the earth will one day be reconciled to God (Colossians 1:20).

And the ones chosen for salvation now, will, in the future take part in the administration of the complement of the eras, to head up ALL in the Christ, all in the heavens and all on the earth (Ephesians 1:9,10).

And all creation, the entire universe will one day be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God (Romans 8). Therefore, each planet of the billions of galaxies will not have a separate saviour. All came out of, through and is FOR God (Romans 11) and so the entire universe that came out of God will return to God all based upon what Christ did.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:16 AM
 
Location: NH
818 posts, read 1,017,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He is God. He determined before time began that he would do this. He COULD have backed out when he was on earth, but he chose not to.
So he has the ultimate 'free will' and he chose to give humans a chance to save themselves?
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,097 posts, read 29,963,441 times
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I believe that God's Plan for humanity was laid out prior to the creation of our world and that Jesus Christ voluntarily agreed to act as the Redeemer of all mankind. When He was praying to His Father in Gethsemane that the "cup be removed, if possible," He was simply asking if there was any other way by which we might be granted eternal life other than for Him to continue with His sacrifice. When He realized that there was not, He could have chosen not to suffer any more and not to die. Knowing, however, what the result would have been (permanent death for all of us and the resulting spiritual anguish of our souls), He made a conscious choice to do His Father's will.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe that God's Plan for humanity was laid out prior to the creation of our world and that Jesus Christ voluntarily agreed to act as the Redeemer of all mankind. When He was praying to His Father in Gethsemane that the "cup be removed, if possible," He was simply asking if there was any other way by which we might be granted eternal life other than for Him to continue with His sacrifice. When He realized that there was not, He could have chosen not to suffer any more and not to die. Knowing, however, what the result would have been (permanent death for all of us and the resulting spiritual anguish of our souls), He made a conscious choice to do His Father's will.
So then god the father and god the son are completely different entities, with one having determined what must be done and the other looking for some way out of performing the duties involved?

And then god the father, who in theory can do whatever it wishes, decides that god the son should have to suffer anyway?

When your gods are behaving with less common sense than the dimmer humans, why are they being thought of as gods?
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:01 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,367,893 times
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Preordained?!?

Jesus clearly prays repeatedly "Father if it is your will let this cup pass from me" referring to his time of suffering.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,148 posts, read 10,445,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The Scriptures show us that God is making peace through the blood of Christ's cross so that ALL in the heavens and all on the earth will one day be reconciled to God (Colossians 1:20).

And the ones chosen for salvation now, will, in the future take part in the administration of the complement of the eras, to head up ALL in the Christ, all in the heavens and all on the earth (Ephesians 1:9,10).

And all creation, the entire universe will one day be brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God (Romans 8). Therefore, each planet of the billions of galaxies will not have a separate saviour. All came out of, through and is FOR God (Romans 11) and so the entire universe that came out of God will return to God all based upon what Christ did.

The only people who obtain the reward of first resurrection are the 144,000, nobody else get resurrected for the Messianic kingdom.

This is why it is so important to learn temple design because it only shows the 3 sections of heaven and what the difference is between being saved and obtaining the reward of first resurrection.

Just because you say Jesus doesn't mean much of anything, the great majority go to the outer court and there is no resurrection for people who go to the outer court, they wait upon the decision of the second death and whether or not they get resurrected at all.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,066,770 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The Scriptures say God sent His Son into the world, not to judge the world but so that the world will be saved.

Since God sent His Son, His Son is not God. His Son is the Son of God. God did not send Himself into the world to die for the sins of the world. He sent His Son. His Son willingly went.

He Son wanted to know if there was another way rather than "drinking the cup" of suffering and death. Then He said to God "Not my will but Thine be done."
I think it actually says that he passed the cup of suffering and death to the Gentile enemies of Israel in order that they bow to Israel as the scriptures predicted (self-fulling prophecy).
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,355 posts, read 5,132,164 times
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You know, if you assume the attributes given to God by Christianity, God is a function. Yes, like a math function. He is neverchanging, Omni...., so basically you put an input into God and he sends back an output.

The question is if a function can have a personality?
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