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I am not much of a Harun Yahya fan. While his books are good for children to understand concepts at very basic level, they are not very good commentaries on the the Qur'an. at an adult level.
But every Muslim holds full responsibility for his/her beliefs. We each have the responsibility to question all things and only believe that which we our self have validated.
While I am critical of Yahya's books in the sense they are juvenile and should not be considered as an adult teaching. I am not as critical as some scholars are such as:
Quote:
According to Muslim scholars, anti-Evolutionist Harun Yahya is a Pantheist, an Idolator. In this video, one Muslim scholar explains why, and warns people to stay away from Yahya. He is first mentioned at 03:30.
I put that up only to show that many Muslims disagree with Harun Yahya. I am not that critical of him, but I do feel his books should not be considered scholary.
I put it up as a source of direct quotes from the Quran with promises the the Muslim faithful. As I suspected, the Quran offers inducements to Muslims just as the Bible offers the to Christians.
I hasten to admit that no believer in either religion is likely comfortable thinking of it in exactly those terms (Christian "prosperity gospel", "name it and claim it" types excepted). But if they are not taken as incentives they are at least taken as comforts. "God is in control" is a common expression.
I put it up as a source of direct quotes from the Quran with promises the the Muslim faithful. As I suspected, the Quran offers inducements to Muslims just as the Bible offers the to Christians.
I hasten to admit that no believer in either religion is likely comfortable thinking of it in exactly those terms (Christian "prosperity gospel", "name it and claim it" types excepted). But if they are not taken as incentives they are at least taken as comforts. "God is in control" is a common expression.
I read the Qur'an in Arabic and it is my opinion the descriptions of Heaven are more metaphorical than actual descriptions. I have no idea nor can I imagine what heaven is like. But, that is of no importance to me. My desire for eternity is that I have a lasting purpose. I find that to be a stronger incentive than any gifts. Without having purpose, I have no desire for an eternal existence.
That is my own opinion (astagfirullah)
I read the Qur'an in Arabic and it is my opinion the descriptions of Heaven are more metaphorical than actual descriptions. I have no idea nor can I imagine what heaven is like. But, that is of no importance to me. My desire for eternity is that I have a lasting purpose. I find that to be a stronger incentive than any gifts. Without having purpose, I have no desire for an eternal existence.
That is my own opinion (astagfirullah)
There were temporal promises quoted there too and that is the primary topic of this post. Heaven comes into it only by association -- as I pointed out, if your god promises you things in this life that you don't get, it very much calls the afterlife into question as that is 100% a promissory note whereas a deity's promise of blessing or justice or even judgment in this life is, if true, observable over time.
There were temporal promises quoted there too and that is the primary topic of this post. Heaven comes into it only by association -- as I pointed out, if your god promises you things in this life that you don't get, it very much calls the afterlife into question as that is 100% a promissory note whereas a deity's promise of blessing or justice or even judgment in this life is, if true, observable over time.
While I do believe Allaah(swt) answers our prayers, I believe he gives us what we need, which may not be what we want
No where does Allaah(swt) promise us life will be easy, just the opposite we are promised we will be tested to our limits.
Some of us are tested with physical tribulations others are faced with internal adversity and some with a combination.
We are guaranteed rewards for the good we do and punishment for the evil we do. We are guaranteed that all of mankind will face death, be resurected and Judged with fainess and Mercy. All who die as a Muslim will eventually reach heaven, but we will face punishment for our sins before doing so. Our rewards and punishments can occur ate any time during life, in the grave or in the hereafter, but we will face them.
While I do believe Allaah(swt) answers our prayers, I believe he gives us what we need, which may not be what we want
My life is proof positive that your above statement is absolutely false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
No where does Allaah(swt) promise us life will be easy, just the opposite we are promised we will be tested to our limits.
Well that's pretty unfair. It means tougher people will have really crappy lives whereas the weaker people who cry "uncle!" at the first sign of adversity will live happily and well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
Some of us are tested with physical tribulations others are faced with internal adversity and some with a combination.
Religion is just chock full of tests - there are more "tests" in religion than there was in my 18 years of formal education.
For what purpose, Woodrow? I facetiously used my own life as an example - but in all seriousness, my life IS a good example of why it's all so pointless. Here's why:
a) My life is circumscribed by nothing but pain. It's bad enough that it has taken me out of the game of life completely. It's worse that it has made me a burden to my family and a burden to my community and nation. It has robbed me of purpose, of dreams, of goals, and of hope. Pain can make a person stronger, but only when the pain finally subsides. Non-stop pain only serves to grind a person into the dust until he is so heavily medicated that he's non-functional - or he commits suicide to escape it. This kind of pain in NO WAY makes a person stronger. Take my word for it.
b) Because this pain has taken me out of life completely, I'm no longer having the kinds of "life experiences" that allows a person to accumulate wisdom. In other words, I'm experiencing very little - no career, no spouse, no children, no social or love life to speak of. I'm not traveling, meeting new people, or having any meaningful new experiences. There's only so much wisdom I can amass sitting at my computer or laying in bed - or walking around like a zombie thanks to my meds. Therefore, my physical (much less psychological) trials are not making me wiser - in fact, they're probably making me dumber as the medications slowly eat away at my body and every day being essentially the same as the one before.
c) My disability drastically affects my mobility. It is painful to walk - and even on the best days, I have a very low endurance for walking around. Driving is dangerous for me, though I CAN do it. In other words, I rarely am able to get out of the house. And that means even IF I were becoming the wisest, smartest guru on planet earth, I'm so isolated from society that no one could benefit from it anyway.
Okay, what about the spiritual side of things? Am I slowly being tormented so that I will finally give up and succumb to religion and god-worship in order to feel better? Well ...
d) This kind of pain and depressing life can either make someone a rabid fundamentalist - or a militant atheist. Guess which one I am? Go on, take a wild guess! If I were to imagine that there is an intelligence behind all of this who is either malicious or apathetic in regards to my life, I would be perpetually angry at my circumstances. I would literally have someone to blame ... and someone to be angry at, someone who will constantly fuel my anger each time I beg for the pain to stop -- and it doesn't. No, taking comfort in the very deity who ostensibly either gave you the pain to test you (as you opine) or who stands idly by and watches you suffer like a sick voyeur is pure lunacy. Nor can hollow-sounding verses in a holy book promising you an eternal paradise after suffering in pain for the next 40 years or more make me feel in any way better about my life.
But what about that eternal paradise, anyway? Won't it be great to go there? Maybe I'm being tested to see if I'm worthy of Heaven. Well ... except how does physical misery translate to being worthy of eternal bliss? Why should my physical endurance matter? It makes absolutely NO sense because ...
e) Heaven is supposed to be free of suffering, sickness, and pain. Which means I don't HAVE to be tough to be in Heaven. Just what am I supposed to be tough against in a paradise of eternal euphoria?
f) And finally, the obvious, the 800 lb. gorilla in the room: Why would an omniscient god need to test anyone? And WHY create a person who is "weak" and needs toughened up with horrible tests that make their lives a living hell? That is not only capricious, it's immoral.
So you see, the idea of divine tests just doesn't pass muster - and for several reasons, not just one. I suppose given my circumstances, the errors are more obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
We are guaranteed rewards for the good we do and punishment for the evil we do. We are guaranteed that all of mankind will face death, be resurected and Judged with fainess and Mercy. All who die as a Muslim will eventually reach heaven, but we will face punishment for our sins before doing so. Our rewards and punishments can occur ate any time during life, in the grave or in the hereafter, but we will face them.
Humans are so bizarre and incomprehensible that I have often wondered more than once if I'm even truly human (well, not literally, mind you). There are so many "mainstream" behaviors that I just don't get; many of them are not at all beneficial.
This recurring idea of believing in gods who judge and punish/reward is one such bizarre human trait. In that sense, God has merely supplanted monsters from all kinds of cultures, whether its the Boogyman in Western culture or Baba Yaga in Russian folklore - there's always a monster who will come and gobble up misbehaving children.
That fear (and that threat) is merely transposed to gods in the adult world. Behave yourself or god will judge you and then gobble you up (or throw you into Hell, or some other permanent and immoral punishment). Now, perhaps when I was very young and had yet to fully differentiate right from wrong, I, as well as most children, need a little scare to coerce good behavior. But ... adults?
I'm an atheist - and yet I feel no need to be worried about a drumhead trial and summary punishment from an unknowable entity - an entity which is awfully ambiguous about what it wants and expects. No, I need none of that to be a good person and do what's right and moral.
So why do so many billions need to believe in these cosmic judges which apparently exist for little other reason than to inflict punishment or dole out rewards - with each path to Heaven a bit different in each religion and their subsequent denominations. I just see all of this nonsense as an extremely cluttered table, and as an atheist, I took my arm and swiped the entire table clean.
Ahh ... no gods, no judging, no trying to puzzle together what will get me into heaven, no worry, no second-guessing, no holy books to study, churches to attend, no inferiority complex, no blame for sin, nope, nothing like that.
My life is proof positive that your above statement is absolutely false.
Well that's pretty unfair. It means tougher people will have really crappy lives whereas the weaker people who cry "uncle!" at the first sign of adversity will live happily and well.
Religion is just chock full of tests - there are more "tests" in religion than there was in my 18 years of formal education.
For what purpose, Woodrow? I facetiously used my own life as an example - but in all seriousness, my life IS a good example of why it's all so pointless. Here's why:
a) My life is circumscribed by nothing but pain. It's bad enough that it has taken me out of the game of life completely. It's worse that it has made me a burden to my family and a burden to my community and nation. It has robbed me of purpose, of dreams, of goals, and of hope. Pain can make a person stronger, but only when the pain finally subsides. Non-stop pain only serves to grind a person into the dust until he is so heavily medicated that he's non-functional - or he commits suicide to escape it. This kind of pain in NO WAY makes a person stronger. Take my word for it.
b) Because this pain has taken me out of life completely, I'm no longer having the kinds of "life experiences" that allows a person to accumulate wisdom. In other words, I'm experiencing very little - no career, no spouse, no children, no social or love life to speak of. I'm not traveling, meeting new people, or having any meaningful new experiences. There's only so much wisdom I can amass sitting at my computer or laying in bed - or walking around like a zombie thanks to my meds. Therefore, my physical (much less psychological) trials are not making me wiser - in fact, they're probably making me dumber as the medications slowly eat away at my body and every day being essentially the same as the one before.
c) My disability drastically affects my mobility. It is painful to walk - and even on the best days, I have a very low endurance for walking around. Driving is dangerous for me, though I CAN do it. In other words, I rarely am able to get out of the house. And that means even IF I were becoming the wisest, smartest guru on planet earth, I'm so isolated from society that no one could benefit from it anyway.
Okay, what about the spiritual side of things? Am I slowly being tormented so that I will finally give up and succumb to religion and god-worship in order to feel better? Well ...
d) This kind of pain and depressing life can either make someone a rabid fundamentalist - or a militant atheist. Guess which one I am? Go on, take a wild guess! If I were to imagine that there is an intelligence behind all of this who is either malicious or apathetic in regards to my life, I would be perpetually angry at my circumstances. I would literally have someone to blame ... and someone to be angry at, someone who will constantly fuel my anger each time I beg for the pain to stop -- and it doesn't. No, taking comfort in the very deity who ostensibly either gave you the pain to test you (as you opine) or who stands idly by and watches you suffer like a sick voyeur is pure lunacy. Nor can hollow-sounding verses in a holy book promising you an eternal paradise after suffering in pain for the next 40 years or more make me feel in any way better about my life.
But what about that eternal paradise, anyway? Won't it be great to go there? Maybe I'm being tested to see if I'm worthy of Heaven. Well ... except how does physical misery translate to being worthy of eternal bliss? Why should my physical endurance matter? It makes absolutely NO sense because ...
e) Heaven is supposed to be free of suffering, sickness, and pain. Which means I don't HAVE to be tough to be in Heaven. Just what am I supposed to be tough against in a paradise of eternal euphoria?
f) And finally, the obvious, the 800 lb. gorilla in the room: Why would an omniscient god need to test anyone? And WHY create a person who is "weak" and needs toughened up with horrible tests that make their lives a living hell? That is not only capricious, it's immoral.
So you see, the idea of divine tests just doesn't pass muster - and for several reasons, not just one. I suppose given my circumstances, the errors are more obvious.
Humans are so bizarre and incomprehensible that I have often wondered more than once if I'm even truly human (well, not literally, mind you). There are so many "mainstream" behaviors that I just don't get; many of them are not at all beneficial.
This recurring idea of believing in gods who judge and punish/reward is one such bizarre human trait. In that sense, God has merely supplanted monsters from all kinds of cultures, whether its the Boogyman in Western culture or Baba Yaga in Russian folklore - there's always a monster who will come and gobble up misbehaving children.
That fear (and that threat) is merely transposed to gods in the adult world. Behave yourself or god will judge you and then gobble you up (or throw you into Hell, or some other permanent and immoral punishment). Now, perhaps when I was very young and had yet to fully differentiate right from wrong, I, as well as most children, need a little scare to coerce good behavior. But ... adults?
I'm an atheist - and yet I feel no need to be worried about a drumhead trial and summary punishment from an unknowable entity - an entity which is awfully ambiguous about what it wants and expects. No, I need none of that to be a good person and do what's right and moral.
So why do so many billions need to believe in these cosmic judges which apparently exist for little other reason than to inflict punishment or dole out rewards - with each path to Heaven a bit different in each religion and their subsequent denominations. I just see all of this nonsense as an extremely cluttered table, and as an atheist, I took my arm and swiped the entire table clean.
Ahh ... no gods, no judging, no trying to puzzle together what will get me into heaven, no worry, no second-guessing, no holy books to study, churches to attend, no inferiority complex, no blame for sin, nope, nothing like that.
Now THAT is true peace of mind.
Like you I also am severly disabled, Very limited use of my right arm and right leg, Also chronic pain syndrome and PTSD.
I was at one point an atheist, it lasted for 20+ years.
I do not believe in any form of proselytizing and do not even try to convince others that God(swt) exists, I am a strong believer that a person should not believe anything unless they them self have found significant validtion it is true,
I have found reason to believe and it would be hypocritical of me to try to claim I don't believe, Just as it would be hypocritical of a non-believer to claim to believe if they have not found validation on their own
I have no choice except to follow what I believe to be true just as a non-believer has no choice except to follow that which they them self have found to be true.
I have found peace of mind and I am sincerely pleased that you also have. Peace of Mind is probably the most any one can ever achieve in this world.
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