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MartinEden99I
say we vote on the next "Do atheists..." thread. Here's some proposed candidates:
1) Do atheists still eat babies? Yes, but only Christian babies.
2) Do atheists believe in purple? Well, present your evidence for purple.
3) Do atheists fart out loud? We are the greatest farters in the world. We can rip off digestive thunder at will, be it a series of melodious toots, or one of our megablast porcelain atomizers.
4) Do atheists still believe in purple? See...I knew that you had no evidence.
Justice is a moral concept, we cannot talk of justice without morals being involved.
And what do you mean by "believe in justice?" Believe that it exists?
If you mean believe that it is a good thing, well, of course. It is a necessary tool for having a lawful civilization.
If you mean justice in the form of personal revenge, then no, that is not something I regard as an especially good idea. Seeking revenge is emotional indulgence and it extends the impact of the original offense and does not restore you to the situation which prevailed before the offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Justice has to be meted out by some sort of agency. The only justice that actually exists, imperfect though it is, is meted out by society in the form of the legal system, judges, penal institutions, and the like.
Justice meted out, or promised, from imaginary entities does not exist.
I assume you are asking if atheists believe in some form of fairness inherent in the fabric of reality, and the answer there is, first, the only thing you can be certain about an atheist is that they see no reason to believe in the existence of any deities. Secondly, with that understood, I'd warrant that most atheists, like me, believe that there is no such thing as guaranteed, ultimate, eventual justice at some level other than society, where it is not guaranteed and sometimes doesn't happen at all.
This response should not be construed to mean that atheists have no hope or some such. Basically it just means that we are realists. The existence and availability of justice is what it is no matter what you or I think it is or should be. As such, Christians have to deal with the same imperfect world that I do. It's just that they have all the cognitive dissonance of having to explain to themselves silly questions like "why me" when bad things happen to good people, and I don't. (I simply ask, "why not me?"). If a believer thinks god has their back, it is a false comfort which may or may not be betrayed by circumstances and dumb luck. It's a nice illusion when it works; it's a horrible taskmaster when it doesn't work.
From the Atheist point of view,
How is or should justice be rendered to, for example, Hitler and his victims who are not alive?
From the Atheist point of view,
How is or should justice be rendered to, for example, Hitler and his victims who are not alive?
Once dead, you are beyond justice. We may trample an evil doers legacy, but the evil doer isn't going to know if he is being praised or condemned. Fatal victims are in the same boat, they are no longer capable of knowing what sort of justice might have been directed at their killer.
So, we are talking then only about matters which are of interest to the living. Hitler was an example of one sort of human, the victims were examples of other types, and of course we should also keep in mind that just because you were a victim of someone horrible, that doesn't mean that you couldn't have been horrible yourself.
We mourn for the innocents, we repudiate the wrong doers, but that is for the benefit of the living, the dead are beyond caring. As others have noted, there is no cosmic justice in operation, what goes around may or may not come around, there is no force directing such matters.
OK. Understood. There is no after life or "cosmic" justice in the Atheists point of view.
And again, this is not an argument based conversation. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong. Only asking for my own knowledge.
If both the wrong doer and the victim are alive but the wrong doer is able to dodge the local justice system, or an innocent person is wrongly convicted (say 50 years prison) for something he didn't do - how does Atheism look at these scenario?
OK. Understood. There is no after life or "cosmic" justice in the Atheists point of view.
And again, this is not an argument based conversation. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong. Only asking for my own knowledge.
If both the wrong doer and the victim are alive but the wrong doer is able to dodge the local justice system, or an innocent person is wrongly convicted (say 50 years prison) for something he didn't do - how does Atheism look at these scenario?
Atheism means a belief in zero God(s). Nothing more. There is no legitimate answer to your question.
OK. Understood. There is no after life or "cosmic" justice in the Atheists point of view.
And again, this is not an argument based conversation. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong. Only asking for my own knowledge.
If both the wrong doer and the victim are alive but the wrong doer is able to dodge the local justice system, or an innocent person is wrongly convicted (say 50 years prison) for something he didn't do - how does Atheism look at these scenario?
As MensaGuy said, there is no answer ot your question, as Atheism has no position on this.
Atheists, however, have opinions about justice. In my opinion these things you mention are examples of miscarriages of justice, however justice is a really "fuzzy" concept. It is a human idea, applied to human activity based on our cultures, experiences and innate ideas of equity. 200 years ago, many considered it unjust to deprive a man of his property by freeing his slave, today we would consider the slavery itself unjust and the unlawful theft of such property as a just and righteous thing to do...
-NoCapo
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