Rethinking the Bible (Buddhists, soul, Jehovah, hell)

[bulmabriefs144]

Okay, let's start with the Torah.

We are told "Hear o Israel, the Lord God is One" and that we are "made in the image of God."

We always assume that God is God, and humans are humans, but what if I told you that wasn't the case?

You see, we are currently in Duality Consciousness, being that there is a distinct split between "Divine" and "Human." But traditional Judaism was Unity Consciousness, that is we as humans were part of God. So this means, that we have a self-evident proof for God. God exists, because we exist. We exist, therefore God exists. We were responsible for the creation of the universe, because we are the Image of God. Why do atheists deny the existence of the soul? Not because of superstition or anything, but because Soul is God. In addition, the claim is absurd. You cannot deny your own existence, you are and always will be the Creator, this statement is simple childish defiance against what is seen to be an oppressive rule over your life. But actually, you made the rules, and you can make new rules. Don't like how things work? Okay, change it.

So, this sounds completely cool. Why the need for a Savior? If we all are God, why do we need Jesus?

Originally Posted by http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talmud

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.

Because of this.

Imagine a big crystal (yea, go with Final Fantasy style). This crystal, whenever someone touches it, affects everything in the world. As in, any decision, you make, big or small, affects everyone. And what happens if you want to live a quiet uneventful life? The world stagnates. If you want to suicide? The world dies (see above).

Now consider Jesus.

Originally Posted by http://biblehub.com/matthew/10.htm

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

What is peace but unity? Peace means that people are of one mind, while swords cut things in half. Further, we have the cross. It appears like a couple of lines horizontally and vertically through something.

Yet, here's the thing. If you just split people apart from God, they would ho do their own thing, and screw each other over. This is why the cross also means something else, the bridge of heaven with earth.

Go back to the crystal metaphor earlier. Let's call this Paramatman (or "world soul"), this is all of us together. Each soul (Atman), or crystal shard, is part of the main crystal. While being separate, we are still part of each other, but we have our own lives to live, as we choose. The problem with this, of course, is that we can get real bastards. So, the second reason for Jesus's sacrifice. To give us the ability to love each other.

Originally Posted by http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/36-26.htm

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

A heart of stone, you say.

Let's consider this from God's perspective. In the beginning, we are told that the Earth was a formless nothing, and that God existed, that God created Light, and that humans were formed in God's own image. We are also told that humanity ate the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. That is, the kingdom that God is from has simply One, while Earth is Dualistic (good/evil exist here, so a God who exists in unity, has trouble reaching us; until Jesus, who forms the bridge between our world and the divine).

We are not told why God created in the first place, but I think the answer is obvious.

The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Hold up. How does God know about loneliness, if he's perfect and doesn't need anything? Exactly.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

Now consider Jesus.

Originally Posted by Matthew 10 Parallel Chapters
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.



What is peace but unity? Peace means that people are of one mind, while swords cut things in half. Further, we have the cross. It appears like a couple of lines horizontally and vertically through something.

Yet, here's the thing. If you just split people apart from God, they would ho do their own thing, and screw each other over. This is why the cross also means something else, the bridge of heaven with earth.

You lost me here. According to your theory, why would Jesus come to split people apart from God?

[Vizio]

Or...why not read the Bible as it's written and believe it instead of coming up with some wild and crazy ideas?

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

Why do atheists deny the existence of the soul? Not because of superstition or anything, but because Soul is God. In addition, the claim is absurd. You cannot deny your own existence, you are and always will be the Creator, this statement is simple childish defiance against what is seen to be an oppressive rule over your life. But actually, you made the rules, and you can make new rules. Don't like how things work? Okay, change it.

Here's a great idea. Why don't you skip this thread and write another one entitled, "Rethinking Atheists."

I'm pretty certain every atheist here has written at least one post explaining why they became an atheist, and no, not a one of them ever said they don't believe in God because of some "childish" defiance against religious rules.

That's nonsense. No matter how many times we tell you why we believe what we do, you continue constructing your strawmen arguments and stuffing words into our mouths until we choke on the ignorance.

Yeah, the rules were made by humanity and we atheists decided to walk away from religious rules because they don't make any sense - especially if you don't believe there is a god. I think it's ludicrous for you to belittle atheists by claiming our refusal to follow certain Biblical rules as being "childish defiance" and then turn around - in the very same paragraph - and encourage us to "change" the rules.

Well, which is it? Are we being childishly defiant or are we simply making "new rules" (as you told us to do) because we "don't like how things work." (As you said). It's rather unfair (and dishonest) to call atheists "childish" for doing the very thing you encourage us to do.

Besides, becoming an atheist has very little to do with how we feel about Biblical rules. One can be a Christian and not adhere to every silly rule in the Bible. It doesn't require full-blown atheism to avoid the nonsense in the Old Testament, for instance.

No ... the vast majority of atheists will tell you, again and again, that they are atheists because there just isn't any evidence for the existence of ANY gods, much less any evidence for any specific god like Allah or Jehovah or Zeus.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

What is peace but unity? Peace means that people are of one mind, while swords cut things in half. Further, we have the cross. It appears like a couple of lines horizontally and vertically through something.

You're really reaching with your symbology* here, but that's not what I'm addressing. Peace and unity are not synonymous. A society does not have to emulate the Borg Collective in order to be at peace with itself. Who wants to be all of one mind, anyway? I doubt most people, at least those who like being free, have any desire to give up their own personal identity for the misguided belief that doing so will bring peace.

It reminds me of schools that think making all the kids dress the same (uniforms) will help solve the problems caused by the "haves" and the "have-nots" coexisting within the same school. Does it help? Nope, not really. But people will keep telling themselves that it does.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

Yet, here's the thing. If you just split people apart from God, they would ho do their own thing, and screw each other over. This is why the cross also means something else, the bridge of heaven with earth.

Oh, so that's how it works? Oh dear ... I better get out there right now and find someone to "screw over." I haven't exerted by selfishness at all yet today. As an atheist and thus, by default, "separated from God," I must avoid acts of kindness and instead stomp through town doing what I want, taking what I want, and imposing my will upon anyone with whom I come into contact. Look out world, here I come!

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

While being separate, we are still part of each other, but we have our own lives to live, as we choose. The problem with this, of course, is that we can get real bastards. So, the second reason for Jesus's sacrifice. To give us the ability to love each other.

You're making far too many random, unproven, and exceedingly specious assumptions. Of course we all have our own lives and most of us, believers or not, live it as we choose. And you find fault with that, do you? What other choice is there aside from slavery? Is that what you suggest? That we give up our own lives and live in servitude? And just who would we serve - and who would enforce it?

The world you envision is a hellish one where we might as well be referred to by number. ("I am not a number, I'm a human being!") That is not the kind of life 99% of the people would want. A little bit of selfishness is not a bad thing. In fact, it's healthy, not to mention necessary. Ugh, I wish I had more time to explain how my grandmother is an example of full-blown altruism and why it drives the rest of the family absolutely crazy. All I can do is tell you to trust me - without some "enlightened self interest" we would probably start killing each other just to be left in peace.

In addition, this isn't Star Wars. We're not all clones - nor does anyone want to be. A significant portion of our lives is spent establishing and maintaining our own identities, avoiding the horrid thought of being just like everyone else. Most of us want to stand out in one way or the other. It might be by being really good at something or the exhibition of their hard work and talent. It might be through style and fashion. It might be through the things they buy and own. There are multitudinous ways in which to be unique. The hive mind society you seem to be envisioning would be repulsive to the vast majority of people.

And just for the record, yeah, that does include beliefs and worldviews. All you have to do is watch the old footage of all the civilians gathered to watch Nazi party rallies in Nuremberg and see the glazed-over, unthinking, staring eyes as an entire population allows itself to be enthralled by an ugly little dictator. You NEED the voice of dissension for every worldview, every belief, lest that belief become smug, arrogant, and so sure of itself that killing those that do not fall in line is just par for the course. Religion has done that time and time again.

*The spellchecker needs to expand its vocabulary. So many words are marked as misspelled - probably because the word isn't listed in its database. In this case, the word "symbology" was underlined as misspelled.

[nateswift]

"Separated from God" is not the same as "not conscious of the connection."

[bulmabriefs144]

Shirina, not everything is about you. Or atheism. Which is why I'm going to ignore your post. It's about the Bible. Not atheism. So I'm not going to argue any of your points. That's like wanting to go to a child's kindergarten graduation when you're an unmarried guy, and they're only a nephew. You're barging in. It has nothing to do with you. But I'll explain anyway.

Atheism, the reason I call it "childish" is because it's effectively missing the point (why I'm ignoring this entirely). Every religious worldview is an effort to change the world around you. The point of atheism is that it is a sort of "I don't believe in you" defense against religious moralism (as noted by the statistic that 17% of atheists are born atheists, 0.5% are buddhists, most of the rest ex-theists and particularly ex-Catholics, the reason most people are atheists is because they either grew up without religion, or learned they didn't fit in that group and hated it). It's like a kid saying "I don't believe in ghosts." This is fine, really, it works. But this is completely pointless. Why? Well, let me lay something out for you.

The do unto others thing? It's not a moral command. The reason you do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, is because reality is a reflection of your perceptions. As in, the way you treat yourself is how you subconsciously treat others, and vice versa. If you hurt others then, you are actually hurting yourself.

You can see God as some scary old man handing down commandments, but actually if Shirina doesn't want to believe in God, Shirina wills God not to exist, and will never see any miracles/Heaven/Hell/etc. If you don't want to believe in God, you simply don't. End of story. Trying to convince others is fighting against yourself. Likewise, I actually do believe in God, and will continue to do so, no matter how you pick apart my arguments.

And that's why this thread has nothing to do with you. Moving on...

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Originally Posted by Pleroo

You lost me here. According to your theory, why would Jesus come to split people apart from God?

The above passage.

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.

Essentially, the problem of sin, is actually other people.

Suppose you're... Lindsey Lohan. Everyone expects you to be a cute perfect little girl. Only, you've become an adult and decide to mess yourself up.

This is what is going on, on a cosmic scale. We stumble through our lives worrying about what other people think. Because it's our connection to other people and God is not as it should be, it's a guilt connection. Because we are connected to other people, we feel like we should measure up to the rules and norms.

What is called perfectionism.

Jesus did not come to separate us from God. Jesus came to be the bridge between what God actually is, not what humans believe God is. Jesus came to save us from that. That's what's screwing us over, and preventing us from actually loving each other.

God didn't actually write the Ten Commandments. Moses was a cult leader. Some of these commandments are legit (like yea, don't go around killing people), and some can be oppressive. Moses had some idea of what he thought people shouldn't do and "God said this." Suuuuuure...

Or...why not read the Bible as it's written and believe it instead of coming up with some wild and crazy ideas?

I read the Bible as it was written. You read it literally, and decided not to do any interpretation. Maybe my theory is wrong, but Vizio, I actually tried. I used my heart and mind to come up with my own conclusion.

[TroutDude]

There are three regular posters on this forum whose threads/responses I no longer bother with. What they have in common is extended navel-gazing and no point.

[bulmabriefs144]

Gasp. Am I one of them?

On that note. Our word of the day is Omphaloskepsis.