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As typical, you have to negate anything I say. It's a bad comparison. OH I won't tell you why it's bad, but it's gotta be bad cuz Jeff said it..
What about the word "because" do you not understand? "A bad comparison. Because ..." Look at what comes after the "because" and quit claiming that no "why" was given.
That's right. So when you go around saying there IS a God and the Bible IS absolutely true and Christianity IS the only correct religion ... guess who's making an assertion. Atheists? Bugger that ... it's you.
And exactly how does that give you the right to claim (and often as fact) that there is NO God? Rejecting evidence is one thing. Claiming that you know there is no God requires proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
That's NOT how it works.
First, our assertion isn't that there's no god, our assertion is that there's no evidence for god.
You're trying to use an intellectually dishonest argument to try and switch the burden of proof. That might work on someone insanely stupid, but sorry, I'm on to it. I'm sure everyone else here is, as well.
Baloney. When you flat out tell me that God is my imaginary friend, that's not an assertion that evidence doesn't exist. That's an assertion that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no God. Own up to it. It gets tiring when atheists constantly demand evidence (which they don't want anyways) yet boldly make claims based on tough condescending rhetoric, not evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
The very FIRST assertion was made by you: There IS a God. Period. Not there might be a God or I believe there's a God. No, you're saying there IS a God. And not just a generic God, either, but a very specific God of a very specific subset of a very specific religion. You have to not only prove a God of any kind exists, but that it's the very specific God that you worship. Your specificity in your beliefs makes it almost impossible for you to really prove your assertion - or even present valid evidence.
That is my belief. You can take it or reject. MY goal is not to convince you because I know that is a fruitless pursuit. My goal is to wash away the dishonest comments about Christianity especially this attempt to paint us as scum of the earth here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
You know this to be true, so the only option open to you is for you to shift the burden of proof. Except you can't - because you haven't even come close to meeting YOUR burden of proof. Almost all of your posts have been anti-gay tirades, defending pedophiles, attacking evolution, and, of course, spending a lot of wasted keystrokes pretending that atheists have the burden of proof.
I know this to be true mainly from personal experiences and real supernatural encounters. But since your side flat out rejects personal testimony then that doesn't leave me with much room to work with seeing you are demanding physical proof for a non-physical reality. My posts are about defending Christianity and religious freedom. The homosexual issue just happens to be the biggest social issue right now that is planted squarely in conflict with both. Defending pedophiles? That was only ONE topic and now you just put the burden on yourself to prove that Josh Duggar is currently a pedophile. Sorry, but a 14 year old boy and a grown man do not have the same level of maturity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Oh right ... and a magical tribal god from the Bronze Age creating humans from a pile of dirt and a rib - now that's SO grounded in reality, right? Gimme a break. If it wasn't for your cultural brainwashing and inculcation, you would find such a story a laugh riot -- just like I do. But, you've been indoctrinated by whomever or whatever to believe this ridiculous etiology. And if I had been your mother or preacher, I could have had you believing with fanatical zeal that Mickey Mouse is God and we all live on the globe in the Mickey Mouse clubhouse. Or that Mr. Peanut is God and that Heaven is actually Jimmy Carter's peanut farm - and when we all die, we'll become peanuts with a top hat and cane. Yep. If I caught you young enough and isolated you during your formative years, I could mold you so that you'd be willing to DIE for Mickey Mouse or Mr. Peanut.
You may impress some with your creative characterizations, but I am not in the least. It is nothing more than a belittling tactic by using terms like "magical". There is nothing magical about God. It is spiritual. It's that spiritual nature that makes a person feel internal pain whenever a tragedy occurs, or if they have a wicked evil nature, they feel pleasure at the pain of others. In your false reality, we are only comprised of physical bodies. Anything like feelings of love or compassion are nothing more than electrical signals in the brain, equivalent to eating a piece of chocolate. Now how realistic does that sound? "Hey I love you honey, just like I love eating this piece of cake". Most people know there is more to a person than just their physical bodies. They can feel it. It is what makes them completely unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
If it wasn't for your cultural brainwashing and inculcation, you would find such a story a laugh riot -- just like I do. But, you've been indoctrinated by whomever or whatever to believe this ridiculous etiology. nd if I had been your mother or preacher, I could have had you believing with fanatical zeal that Mickey Mouse is God and we all live on the globe in the Mickey Mouse clubhouse. Or that Mr. Peanut is God and that Heaven is actually Jimmy Carter's peanut farm - and when we all die, we'll become peanuts with a top hat and cane. Yep. If I caught you young enough and isolated you during your formative years, I could mold you so that you'd be willing to DIE for Mickey Mouse or Mr. Peanut.
Christianity is the most widespread religion in the world so that alone blows your cultural brainwashing
rhetoric out of the water. I know missionaries who can attest to locals walking for miles to hear the gospel of Christ in a foreign land. And they get saved. Their cultural religion wasn't enough. They sensed there was a truth out there even though they were raised in a culture teaching it from birth. Brian Head Welch is an example of someone who was completely steeped in your anti-religuous, given everything that the world has to offer on a platter, and yet he still was miserable. He became a new person in Christ IMMEDIATELY. No brainwashing there. Just a revelation that God is real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
My point, of course, being that nothing - absolutely nothing - about your religion has any basis in reality. The best you can come up with is that the Bible mentions some real earthly kings - and that's about it. NONE of the major events of the Bible are corroborated anywhere else. It's as if the Bible exists in its own alternate reality - as if the Bible was the written history of a different earth. No other historian wrote about the Hebrew exodus, the Tower of Babel, the slaughter of the Canaanites, etc.
The Bible fortole and accurately predicted the coming of Christ who transformed the world. Christianity should have gone into the dust bins of history along with Baal and all those ancient cults if what you say is true. Instead, it survived and thrived, and it's simple message of love, forgiveness and salvation has been perverted into something that people like you deem is immoral and awful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
And the magic, the superstition, the so-called miracles - again, uncorroborated. Hell, no one even knows what Jesus did for the first 30 years of his life. He just suddenly "pops" on the radar - kinda like if someone just sorta kinda like - made him up. Especially considering NONE of Jesus's words or actions were actually witnessed by the Biblical authors - and we all know how stories become embellished and exaggerated over the years. Especially when we're talking about supposed messiahs and saviors.
And exactly how do you expect anyone to corroborate a miracle especially to the degree where someone couldn't claim a photo or video wasn't edited? We even have shows like ghost hunters with scientific equipment, but that's not good enough. Heck, even the demon house in Indiana wasn't good enough and that had supernatural experiences documented by police and CPS. I learned long ago that you just can't convince those who hold a great resentment towards God. It's like the one atheist who told me that if God is real then they would rather burn in hell forever so they could give him the finger. That tells me of the level of anger out there which isn't surprising since you are really on team Satan and just don't know it.
Post hoc fallacy. Gifted people do good things whether or not they are theists. You can't give theism credit for their talent or good works when the obvious recipient of that credit should be the persons themselves.
And it cuts both ways: crappy people do awful things whether or not they are theists.
Christianity claims to be the source / inspiration / promoter of good works that were already there, just like it claims to be the source and defender of morality that was already there, etc.
Christians can certainly be good people and as Christians can do good work, either individually or in the name of the religion. Christianity can even be a mechanism for good, for reinforcing positive behavior and for alleviating people's natural fear of death and the unexplained.
None of which has anything whatsoever to do with proving the basic premise of a Christian God or Jesus as his son. Good works can be done in the name of the FMS if one wants to promote that. We see good things done by Habitat for Humanity regularly. Doesn't mean Jimmy Carter is the son of god.
Perhaps the most insulting part of Christianity is that searching for proof and question the basis concepts by it's adherents is discouraged as a sign of weakness. Blindly accepting things that go against reason and evidence, strictly on faith, is considered a positive trait, while searching for evidence or truth is considered a sin.
Ah, the old tired "proving non-existence" fallacy. It was just a matter of time before this nonsense reared its head.
Sorry champ, the burden of proof is entirely on you to prove sky fairy exists. Get to it.
Be specific.
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
You may as well ask "Where is the evidence that there is no tooth fairy".....Actually the ball is in your park....Where is the evidence that there is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Where is your evidence that you don't have an invisible, weightless purple kitten dancing on your head singing Funkytown in Swahili while waving a Confederate flag and sacrificing meatballs to the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Oh, you don't have any evidence to disprove that this kitten doesn't exist?
Well then, it looks like you have a purple kitten on your head. Best be careful the next time you put on a hat. You might get your eyes clawed out.
Oh yeah, don't look now, but I think you also have an intelligent fungus growing between your toes - it's invisible, too, but it's evolving at an astounding rate. Yesterday, they were just spores but today this fungus is about to split the atom. Better get yourself some foot cream because when that first nuke goes off, your foot is going to hurt like hell.
What, that's silly? That's nonsense? Okay, prove me wrong.
Oh you can't? Then I suggest getting that foot cream. Now. I can almost hear the countdown from here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
And your contention is that there is a god, but you have not once substantiated this claim ever. So why is it you feel you can go around laying this rule on everyone, but exempt yourself over and over again?
And so far in my experience there isn't. Least of all from you. If there is supporting evidence out there, no one has shown it to me.
Yet no one is asking about or disputing the POSSIBILITY of there being one. I have never, in my entire life, ever suggested it was not possible. The question people like me ask is whether there is any evidence at all suggesting there IS one.
A bad comparison. Because at least the claim the sun will rise tomorrow is STRONGLY substantiated. So this is not at all analogous to your claim there is a god which you have not substantiated in any way _at all_.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
That's right. So when you go around saying there IS a God and the Bible IS absolutely true and Christianity IS the only correct religion ... guess who's making an assertion. Atheists? Bugger that ... it's you.
That's NOT how it works.
First, our assertion isn't that there's no god, our assertion is that there's no evidence for god.
You're trying to use an intellectually dishonest argument to try and switch the burden of proof. That might work on someone insanely stupid, but sorry, I'm on to it. I'm sure everyone else here is, as well.
The very FIRST assertion was made by you: There IS a God. Period. Not there might be a God or I believe there's a God. No, you're saying there IS a God. And not just a generic God, either, but a very specific God of a very specific subset of a very specific religion. You have to not only prove a God of any kind exists, but that it's the very specific God that you worship. Your specificity in your beliefs makes it almost impossible for you to really prove your assertion - or even present valid evidence.
You know this to be true, so the only option open to you is for you to shift the burden of proof. Except you can't - because you haven't even come close to meeting YOUR burden of proof. Almost all of your posts have been anti-gay tirades, defending pedophiles, attacking evolution, and, of course, spending a lot of wasted keystrokes pretending that atheists have the burden of proof.
We don't.
Oh right ... and a magical tribal god from the Bronze Age creating humans from a pile of dirt and a rib - now that's SO grounded in reality, right? Gimme a break. If it wasn't for your cultural brainwashing and inculcation, you would find such a story a laugh riot -- just like I do. But, you've been indoctrinated by whomever or whatever to believe this ridiculous etiology. And if I had been your mother or preacher, I could have had you believing with fanatical zeal that Mickey Mouse is God and we all live on the globe in the Mickey Mouse clubhouse. Or that Mr. Peanut is God and that Heaven is actually Jimmy Carter's peanut farm - and when we all die, we'll become peanuts with a top hat and cane. Yep. If I caught you young enough and isolated you during your formative years, I could mold you so that you'd be willing to DIE for Mickey Mouse or Mr. Peanut.
My point, of course, being that nothing - absolutely nothing - about your religion has any basis in reality. The best you can come up with is that the Bible mentions some real earthly kings - and that's about it. NONE of the major events of the Bible are corroborated anywhere else. It's as if the Bible exists in its own alternate reality - as if the Bible was the written history of a different earth. No other historian wrote about the Hebrew exodus, the Tower of Babel, the slaughter of the Canaanites, etc.
And the magic, the superstition, the so-called miracles - again, uncorroborated. Hell, no one even knows what Jesus did for the first 30 years of his life. He just suddenly "pops" on the radar - kinda like if someone just sorta kinda like - made him up. Especially considering NONE of Jesus's words or actions were actually witnessed by the Biblical authors - and we all know how stories become embellished and exaggerated over the years. Especially when we're talking about supposed messiahs and saviors.
So yeah ... we're back to you proving your God exists and that the Bible is true. I'm all ears (or eyes, in this case). We base nearly ALL of our actions and beliefs on evidence in the day-to-day world. It's only regarding religion when suddenly a lack of evidence is no longer a good reason to dismiss it.
No, there is not a "vast amount of evidence" for a creator. In fact, there is virtually none - and even quantum theory shows how something can, in fact, come from nothing which nullifies the need for a creator. In other words, there is no scientific evidence for a creator, no good reason to start believing in one. Goosebumpy feelings, dubious "miracles," pastors finding their car keys, weird personal experiences that could have been anything from a brain belch to a mild stroke, and passages from the Bible don't come anywhere close to being "evidence."
And I've written at LENGTH about how one can tell God came from somebody's imagination. The only advantage you have is that belief in gods is such an old concept that it can't be traced back to the actual person who started it all. But that doesn't mean that this whole fiasco wasn't born in the mind of some bored hunter-gatherer while taking a dump behind a thistle bush.
Plus, remember ... your burden of proof is not met simply by establishing the existence of A creator. Oh no, you have to also prove that the creator is the God of the Bible. We're all still waiting. All 6.5 billion of us are waiting for that elusive proof.
It would depend on the person, now, wouldn't it. Someone whom I know has a tendency to lie, embellish, exaggerate, or seek attention, I will be far more critical of than a down-to-earth, honest, and skeptical person. It would also depend on just how bizarre the story was.
I would not necessarily believe the person is lying to me. But it is very possible that the person is making a mistake, misinterpreting the event. I wouldn't necessarily doubt that something happened to him, but I'm not just going to accept it at face value. He could have had a very powerful daydream for all I know - I've had some that were so vivid that I started awake with my hands physically reacting to events in the dream.
You know that we don't remember most of our dreams so that we don't end up confusing them with memories ... right? Sometimes that little defensive mechanism doesn't work so well and a dream gets through. Those dreams can easily be mistaken for a memory ....
Yes, that is true to a certain extent. But some things have evidence that is incontrovertible. The sun "rising" every day is incontrovertible. The evidence is so powerful that the sun will rise tomorrow that no one worries about it not happening - and there's nothing we could do about it anyway.
God-worship, on the other hand, only has "evidence" that is interpreted. For instance, some Christians say that the odds of a planet like earth to exist are so astronomical (pun intended) that only a God could have accomplished it. But that's interpreted evidence ... with a ton of confirmation bias. I can just as easily say the fact that earth exists only proves that we are super-lucky to be here. Earth didn't need a creator for it to form.
What's more, when it comes to God-worship, not only do we demand solid evidence since the claim is so crazy, we also demand solid evidence because of the consequences if you happen to produce that evidence. Thus, if you produced truly good evidence for God's existence, we would have to change our lives in some big ways ... and if we're going to do that, the evidence has to be pretty profound.
NOPE!!! That is NOT how it works...not in the REAL WORLD anyways.
You all need to face ***THE REALITY OF THE WORLD*** about "God Belief" and belief in the various "sacred books". And why that reasonably puts the onus on the Atheists to "represent" and "prove their claim".
See..."Burden of proof" would be on the "God Exists" and "The Bible/Koran/etc is true" claims...all else being equal--But, all things ARE NOT equal.
As far as "The Burden of Proof"...that obligation is upon the one making the "extraordinary", "remarkable", or "new" claim.
"God Exists" and "The Bible/Koran/etc are true" has been sooooooo prolific, for sooooooo long...it is considered a "Standard of Human Understanding".
When a concept reaches a "saturation point" that is to such a degree that it is considered to be "The Standard"...a position that deviates from that would be the "extraordinary/remarkable/new claim" that will have to prove itself against the long established standard.
When you are the veeeeeeeeery slight majority...contesting the "Existing Worldwide Standard"...that's a toooooootally different story.
Belief in God and those writings has been the "norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"!
Those concepts don't have to prove themself...they currently "hold office"! It's upon the weak challenger (Atheism) of nearly negligible merit/influence to prove itself. But, so far it's gotten steamrolled and flattened, in every "race". If it were seen as an "election"...Atheism would be viewed as being defeated in the biggest landslide EVER.
It's actually a joke that the insignificant pipsqueak Challenger with a 1W-9L record would have the nerve to "call out" the REEEEEEEIGNING, AND DEFENNNNNNDING, UNNNNNN-DE-FEATED, CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON CONNNNNNNCEPTS, OOOOOOF THE WORRRRRRRLD...and demand they "prove" themselves. LOL!
And anyone can blow off with all the "ad Pop/Logical Fallacy" rebuttals they want...but the Atheist viewpoint STILL won't ever do anything but get trounced in the Arena of World Merit.
Also, before anyone gets all mentally irregular...I hold Atheism in higher regard, and view it as superior, to most concepts...and certainly above all organized religious dogma. I'm just pointing out the REALITY as to what "the way of the world" is.
Just like Galileo had to PROVE the universe DOES NOT revolve around the Earth, since that concept was in opposition to the "long established standard" that it did...the Atheists will have to PROVE God DOES NOT exist, if they want their concept to be accepted as valid.
BTW...good luck with that. It will be much harder for the Atheists than it was for Galileo...since he was right, and they are wrong (about God not existing).
Those concepts have "taken on all challengers" for thousands of years and "dusted them" like they weren't even there!! For those that like "facts"...try that one.
What is it about "THE REALITY OF HOW THE WORLD REALLY IS" that some people just don't want to face up to? That they don't like the way it is? Some other issues?
Let me give you an analogy: Regardless of the fact that it is June, and all the scientific meteorological evidence against it...I have most people BELIEVING FOR SURE that it is going to snow 2 feet tomorrow in NY City, NY USA.
Now...how is the FACT that it isn't going to snow at all, let alone two feet, going to effect shovel sales if most people believe it's going to snow 2 feet anyway?
See what I mean now?
See, it doesn't matter if Theists are wrong and Atheists are right...or if Atheists are wrong and Theists are right...as respects the effect on the world that 98% of the people that have ever lived embraced Theism!
That a small minority are NonBelievers doesn't mean squat, even if they were/are totally "right"! The FACT that the vast majority DID/DO believe GUARANTEES what they believe IS going to matter!
Tell the people that were in the World Trade Center on 9-11-2001 that, "It doesn't matter what the Muslims believe, because the Atheists are absolutely sure they are wrong and what they believe is fake". And I bet the guy that owns the matzo distributorship during Passover knows how much it matters what the Jews believe...regardless of the Atheist determination of their belief lacking accuracy or merit.
Try this test: Ask Atheists to give up large percentages of their income to promote Atheism...see how you make out with that.
Or, to reeeeeeeally prove the power of religious belief over nonbelief...ask Atheists to DIE in the name and honor of Atheism. You will then KNOW the REAL FACTS as to the power of religious belief as compared to nonbelief as respects the ability to "move" people.
IT DOESN'T MATTER if the Bible/Christianity or Quran/Islam, etc, is "fake"...BILLIONS of people have and do believe it...so it's great influence and effect are guaranteed!
Answer this, then you will "get it": What would you rather have as your income this year---The money spent printing and distributing copies of The Bible or The Quran, or copies of Hawkings books?
The only way religion will ever "die out"...is if a big asteroid hits the Earth.
What is it about "THE REALITY OF HOW THE WORLD REALLY IS" that some people just don't want to face up to? That they don't like the way it is? Some other issues?
Let me give you an analogy: Regardless of the fact that it is June, and all the scientific meteorological evidence against it...I have most people BELIEVING FOR SURE that it is going to snow 2 feet tomorrow in NY City, NY USA.
Now...how is the FACT that it isn't going to snow at all, let alone two feet, going to effect shovel sales if most people believe it's going to snow 2 feet anyway?
See what I mean now?
See, it doesn't matter if Theists are wrong and Atheists are right...or if Atheists are wrong and Theists are right...as respects the effect on the world that 98% of the people that have ever lived embraced Theism!
That a small minority are NonBelievers doesn't mean squat, even if they were/are totally "right"! The FACT that the vast majority DID/DO believe GUARANTEES what they believe IS going to matter!
Tell the people that were in the World Trade Center on 9-11-2001 that, "It doesn't matter what the Muslims believe, because the Atheists are absolutely sure they are wrong and what they believe is fake". And I bet the guy that owns the matzo distributorship during Passover knows how much it matters what the Jews believe...regardless of the Atheist determination of their belief lacking accuracy or merit.
Try this test: Ask Atheists to give up large percentages of their income to promote Atheism...see how you make out with that.
Or, to reeeeeeeally prove the power of religious belief over nonbelief...ask Atheists to DIE in the name and honor of Atheism. You will then KNOW the REAL FACTS as to the power of religious belief as compared to nonbelief as respects the ability to "move" people.
IT DOESN'T MATTER if the Bible/Christianity or Quran/Islam, etc, is "fake"...BILLIONS of people have and do believe it...so it's great influence and effect are guaranteed!
Answer this, then you will "get it": What would you rather have as your income this year---The money spent printing and distributing copies of The Bible or The Quran, or copies of Hawkings books?
The only way religion will ever "die out"...is if a big asteroid hits the Earth.
All that demonstrates is that P.T. Barnum was right. Watching religious leaders and proponents reminds me a lot of watching an infomercial. And much like an infomercial, when you actually look into reviews on the product and how it performs, it usually fails pretty miserably. Funny thing is, the guys promoting the product seem to get all petulant when you ask them to demonstrate their claims. Anything ring a bell?
You may have been "raised a Christian." That does not make you a believer. Your faith was not genuine, if you now claim to be an atheist.
That's quite a bit of nonsense, and amusingly so in light of your self-chosen moniker.
I've noticed this before - that posters with handles that tout their seriousness or logic or rationality tend to spout an unusual degree of unserious, illogical and irrational ideas. My guess is that these people are so used to (and tired of) having their unserious/illogical/irrational notions called out that they have come to defensively preface them with a disclaimer of sorts touting their supposed seriousness, their logic, their rationality.
Which, of course, is no substitute for actually advancing serious, logical, rational ideas.
Anyway, back to your nonsensical claim - it is predicated not on reality but on dismissing the unpleasant fact that real, believing Christians sometimes lose their faith. And, really, that's a quintessential aspect of faith, to ignore evidence which leads places you really do not want to go.
When will faith in scientists predictions die out?
Faith in science will die out when the marvelous technological devices like that computer you are sitting at, which is based on some pretty significant scientific theory, prove to have actually been non functioning all along and we have simply been deluding ourselves by believing that cell phones and the like work as predicted. The fact that high technology works just as the science it is founded on has predicted, is a pretty significant indication that the scientific predictions that allow them to work as designed are true and accurate.
Now, when will people who have been predicting the return of a man who died 2,000 begin to realize that a man who died 2,000 years ago IS NOT coming back because dead is dead! And that a record of zero for 2,000 years serves as unmistakable PROOF that dead is dead. Or to put it another way, which better serves to establish the truth of a prediction; one which leads to actual working technology that you use everyday, or one with a record of zero for 2,000 years?
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 06-03-2015 at 01:13 PM..
All that demonstrates is that P.T. Barnum was right. Watching religious leaders and proponents reminds me a lot of watching an infomercial. And much like an infomercial, when you actually look into reviews on the product and how it performs, it usually fails pretty miserably. Funny thing is, the guys promoting the product seem to get all petulant when you ask them to demonstrate their claims. Anything ring a bell?
Fortunately it's not all that hard to change the channel.
Meanwhile P. T. Barnum had a line outside the tent waiting to pay him to get in...and the few saying, "It's all fake!!", were ignored by the masses, while Barnum made a fortune.
It has been said, "The proof of the pudding is the eating".
And such is the "eating" when it comes to Theism, and specifically religion. And what a "feast" it is!!
I submit...there is NOTHING that has EVER influenced mankind, for good or bad, to greater degree than religion.
THERE is your "proof"!!!
Spout all the "not empirically proven", "epic fail", "that's a logical fallacy", "you are deluded", "it's nothing but a bunch of fairy tales", and all the other spew you want...but when all the smoke clears...NOTHING has more "mojo" than religion. NOTHING!!!!!!!
It's like a suitcase full of $100 bills. It may just be a lot of "paper and ink" that "represents" value...but as long as the majority of the world accepts it as having that value...you're rich!!. And THAT is all the PROOF you need that it DOES have that merit and value.
Atheism OTOH...is like the same suitcase full of paper covered with ink...but NOT currency. It's notes that are very lightly recognized as having any "value". So it's really, in effect, just about worthless. Well, except for getting its adherents labeled, "The Most Hated, and the Least Trusted or Respected"...it is VERY good at doing that!!
Don't like that?...oh, well...better learn to deal with it...because, THAT'S THE WAY IT REALLY IS!
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