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Old 06-20-2015, 08:47 AM
 
7,577 posts, read 5,305,884 times
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Like most atheist, I was raised in the church. The version of Christianity that I was taught in the United Methodist and Catholic Churches was a Christianity that stressed empathy, concern for humanity, love and forgiveness. While I have long rejected the supernaturalism of theology, I've long held on to the essential philosophy of these two denomination's progressive wings.

So I was profoundly struck by the expressions of forgiveness made by members of the congregation and victims of the recent murders at Emanuel AME Church who one by one, expressed forgiveness during Dylann Roof's first appearance for the murders of their pastor and loved ones.

When I contrast this with that of NRA board member Charles Cotton who wrote that because the late pastor of Emanuel had opposed a law allowing people to carry guns in church that, “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.” I have to ask the question, what would Jesus do?

I think that the members of Emanuel answered that question.
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:48 AM
 
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Yes, their spirit of forgiveness comes from God.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Yes, their spirit of forgiveness comes from God.
Any one can forgive another for a harm. Just as any one can do good out side of god.

The problem is when some claim without god we are all scum and worthless human beings so many turn from God.

God, by ANY name is the same. So too are the precepts taught by God--LOVE, MERCY and JUSTICE..

He did not teach TOUGH LOVE, INTOLERANCE and VENGEANCE.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:54 PM
 
7,577 posts, read 5,305,884 times
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Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Yes, their spirit of forgiveness comes from God.
So where does the spirit of intolerance, unforgiveness, and revenge come from?
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Yes, their spirit of forgiveness comes from God.
There is no evidence that it comes from anything other than their own humanity.

It does not require supernatural enablement to be forgiving, even in this circumstance. It requires emotional intelligence, maturity in general, and this can arise within (some would say in spite of) a church, from a humanitarian ethos, or simply from good people living well.

Frankly, parading everyone in a paroxysm of forgiveness this soon after the event may be premature and ill-advised, lacking as the survivors do the ability to have passed this quickly through the early stages of grief such that this is truly a thought-through gesture. It also risks appearing a bit flip about the depth of the tragedy and the heinousness of the crime. Nevertheless, despite the inorganic peer pressure and ritual involved, it's a laudable thing to do, and certainly the place to which every wronged person must come if the perpetrator is not to continue to do his harm.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,209,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Any one can forgive another for a harm. Just as any one can do good out side of god.

The problem is when some claim without god we are all scum and worthless human beings so many turn from God.

God, by ANY name is the same. So too are the precepts taught by God--LOVE, MERCY and JUSTICE..

He did not teach TOUGH LOVE, INTOLERANCE and VENGEANCE.
When someone who is christan speaks of a god who teached love, mercy and justice I see it as a universal. I'm wiccan but my vision of the Lady is much the same. It's the road you take to find Her/Him which is different. And I would never denouce someone who claimed no belief in any form of god/godess. It's our choice and our road to pick and we live in a universe of free will.

When those say that any god but their god is wrong, and all must believe the same, I see them on a false path which they have been led to believe is the proper one by their own fears.

She will love a christan just as much as a pagan if they will accept that love.
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