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And why exactly should they be required to? They didn't tell the person they would not serve them, they said they wouldn't provide for a ceremony that they were morally opposed to.
No. They have a first amendment right to their religion. Since there is no Constitutional right to cake, their rights are violated.
The site was probably scared to get slapped down by the same fascists that fined the bakers $135,000 for speaking about it.
What is so wonderful to you on calling people fascists? You are aware that fascists are part of the extreme right not the left don't you.
If the funding site does not allow for funding for people breaking the law who are you to call them liars and cowards? That is basically what you say when you said they probably meant when they claimed that they do not provide for lawbreakers. I think there was another thread on this forum, I think it was the 8 suggestions or the 9 good to do that had something about... no I remember now it was the 10 Commandments and I am sure one was not to give false testimony against your neighbour. I could be wrong but that sure seems like what you just did, and not for the first time.
So what products can a Christian not discriminate agaisnt others? Selling guns and maybe air time. So the only products an atheist or a gay person can buy from a Christian without fear of refusal is a time slot on a Christian radio station and a hand gun or rifle?
And why exactly should they be required to? They didn't tell the person they would not serve them, they said they wouldn't provide for a ceremony that they were morally opposed to.
No. They have a first amendment right to their religion. Since there is no Constitutional right to cake, their rights are violated.
The site was probably scared to get slapped down by the same fascists that fined the bakers $135,000 for speaking about it.
Did you read the article I linked to that explains bit by bit WHY they got fined??
Cliff notes: they got fined because these fine christians took to posting the gay couple's NAME AND ADDRESS on facebook, which caused a bunch of other fundamentalist christian nuts to harass them at their homes, causing documented mental stress... the fine was based on the severity of the mental anguish caused by these christian *****'s...
Because Christianity holds marriage to be a sacred union. I'm sorry if that bothers you that we would think that. It is a ceremony that God ordained, and that is used as an illustration of God's relationship with his church.
The fact that you don't have a moral objection to it doesn't mean that others might not. Your rights do not trump someone else's rights. For the millionth time....we will point out that there were other bakers that could have serviced these customers. They did not have to get their cake from this particular baker, but they did this for a specific purpose--to make an example and to force the issue. What's maddening is that there is no constitutional right to cake.
The fact that one of the women's mother had recently purchased a cake from the same baker and that both the woman and her mother were surprised that they were refused according to many of the articles I have read goes against what you claim. This time you may be making a false accusation against the two women if the story that she went into the bakery with her mother who had previously purchased a cake there.
Woolworths was not the only lunch counter in town, there are other stores that those in wheelchairs can maybe to into and surely the Jews and the Chinese can find somewhere else to shop. These are the same arguements as there are other bakers. If they went into where her mother shopped and were surprised how is it that they targetted this place and for what reason. If the baker had not raised the issue he would have had to pay a small fine which would have gone to the government and they women would have gotten nothing. Hate of a group so much that you ignore the facts of the story is very sad. And to say that you love the people not the sin does not excuse you for always finding someway to attack those who were discriminated against.
Because Christianity holds marriage to be a sacred union. I'm sorry if that bothers you that we would think that. It is a ceremony that God ordained, and that is used as an illustration of God's relationship with his church.
Okay, let's assume what you say is true. Then this baker should have also refused Atheist wedding cakes too. Did they? Would they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
The fact that you don't have a moral objection to it doesn't mean that others might not. Your rights do not trump someone else's rights. For the millionth time....we will point out that there were other bakers that could have serviced these customers. They did not have to get their cake from this particular baker, but they did this for a specific purpose--to make an example and to force the issue. What's maddening is that there is no constitutional right to cake.
Here is where you are wrong. You assume that there must be a "right" to have a wedding cake. The customer has the right to be served without discrimination. The baker's moral objection doesn't trump the customer's right to be served without discrimination.
Did you read the article I linked to that explains bit by bit WHY they got fined??
Cliff notes: they got fined because these fine christians took to posting the gay couple's NAME AND ADDRESS on facebook, which caused a bunch of other fundamentalist christian nuts to harass them at their homes, causing documented mental stress... the fine was based on the severity of the mental anguish caused by these christian *****'s...
There is no way to defend their actions
Fundies don't do well with facts. They get confused.
What is so wonderful to you on calling people fascists? You are aware that fascists are part of the extreme right not the left don't you.
You don't believe it's fascist to censor people and not let them speak?
Quote:
If the funding site does not allow for funding for people breaking the law who are you to call them liars and cowards? That is basically what you say when you said they probably meant when they claimed that they do not provide for lawbreakers. I think there was another thread on this forum, I think it was the 8 suggestions or the 9 good to do that had something about... no I remember now it was the 10 Commandments and I am sure one was not to give false testimony against your neighbour. I could be wrong but that sure seems like what you just did, and not for the first time.
I'm not sure I did say that they were liars or cowards. Maybe you misunderstood me? Or are you trying to put words in my mouth?
Quote:
So what products can a Christian not discriminate agaisnt others? Selling guns and maybe air time. So the only products an atheist or a gay person can buy from a Christian without fear of refusal is a time slot on a Christian radio station and a hand gun or rifle?
I've certainly not said that. I've repeatedly said that an atheist, a gay person, whoever...is more than welcome to buy a cake from a baker. They SHOULD be served at a bakery. The baker in question, I believe, has had a relationship with the gay couple in the past, and has served them. They have demonstrated they do not have a personal issue with gay people. But to violate their consciences in this way should not be forced upon them.
Absolutely, positively not! As you have been told at least a dozen times, the KKK is not a class of people that is protected by anti-discrimination laws.
Anybody can refuse to do anything for the KKK just because they want to. No discrimination problem at all.
I guess the question might be...why aren't they? Yes--we all think their practices and beliefs are vile and disgusting....but why are the KKK not protected equally? If that's their identity, and it's how they feel, why are they not allowed to live their lives and be happy?
But to violate their consciences in this way should not be forced upon them.
If they decided baking a cake for a disabled person violated their conscience..... are you going to say, "Right on! Let the disabled go to a bakery willing to serve a disabled person!!" How does that work in Vizioism?
I guess the question might be...why aren't they? Why are the KKK not protected equally? If that's their identity, and it's how they feel, why are they not allowed to live their lives and be happy?
...snip... But to violate their consciences in this way should not be forced upon them.
Violate their consciences? How... That a gay person or two would be enjoying their wonderfully baked cake? Are they so imaginative that they think the gay couple is going to be spreading the cake luxuriously all over their body during their honeymoon? As if a cake allows them to marry or engage in intercourse?
Could they marry without a cake? Yep... What the baker's did was discriminate against them for being gay.
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How... That a gay person or two would be enjoying their wonderfully baked cake? Are they so imaginative that they think the gay couple is going to be spreading the cake luxuriously all over their body during their honeymoon? As if a cake allows them to marry or engage in intercourse?
