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Can you point out the text to me that says he loved Jonathan more than women? I haven't seen it.
2 Samuel 1:26 which I seriously doubt you are ignorant of. Rather you will deny the remotest possibility that it could mean something so unthinkable to you.
BTW I don't think it clearly means they were homosexual lovers, platonic or not. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe even probably not. That isn't my point. It's just that you read all scripture through a subjective filter which proscribes you even considering some possibilities.
2 Samuel 1:26 which I seriously doubt you are ignorant of. Rather you will deny the remotest possibility that it could mean something so unthinkable to you.
He said the love between them was better than the love of a woman. It doesn't suggest that he loves him more than women.
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BTW I don't think it clearly means they were homosexual lovers, platonic or not. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe even probably not. That isn't my point. It's just that you read all scripture through a subjective filter which proscribes you even considering some possibilities.
I have a really hard time understanding how a young man that clearly sought to do the will of God and lived righteously as David did would openly carry on a homosexual relationship. To even suggest it is really kind of ridiculous.
I have a really hard time understanding how a young man that clearly sought to do the will of God and lived righteously as David did would openly carry on a homosexual relationship.
I know. Which was exactly my point.
Maybe it is your conflation of unrighteousness with homosexuality.
Or maybe you are less uncomfortable with the eight wives that David had, although I'm not sure how that works. Here's the king of Israel, with 4 to 8 times as many wives as an ordinary commoner, no doubt the best looking and most refined ones too, and somehow he found Jonathan's love more satisfying than all that.
I'm STILL not saying it was gay love, but if God thinks homosexuality is as icky as you do, why did he allow his inerrant scripture to be drafted in such a way that the merest hint of a possibility of a gay relationship could possibly be inferred for one of god's most favored OT heroes?
I recall thinking that when I was a kid. It raised an eyebrow, I pretty much went with your interpretation and frankly I still do ... but I wondered why god inspired Samuel to record it just so.
So what, if David, Jesus, the deity or anyone else in the Bible was gay, it is as normal to be so as it is to be heterosexual.
It is not normal to be homosexual. It is a deviancy because of the 1% of male homosexuals versus 99% of male heterosexuals. If you look at mathematical data, psychological data and statistical data, and can understand them, you'll see that your statement could not be further from the truth. Anyone following Biblical law would not have engaged in sodomy nor celebrated it for darn sure.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
He said the love between them was better than the love of a woman. It doesn't suggest that he loves him more than women.
I have a really hard time understanding how a young man that clearly sought to do the will of God and lived righteously as David did would openly carry on a homosexual relationship. To even suggest it is really kind of ridiculous.
One of the things that seems twisted these days is that if you "love" someone, it is someone you want to have sex with. I'm really not getting this but young people speak of "friends with benefits". I guess that is why it is unthinkable that someone could love someone or be close to someone without it becoming a sexual relationship. Some people's lives obviously revolve around sex.
I think a lot of people don't have a clue what love is. Without God in your heart, I guess that would make sense.
Maybe it is your conflation of unrighteousness with homosexuality.
Or maybe it's that David, as a righteous young Jewish man knew full well what the Scriptures say about homosexual behavior.
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Or maybe you are less uncomfortable with the eight wives that David had, although I'm not sure how that works. Here's the king of Israel, with 4 to 8 times as many wives as an ordinary commoner, no doubt the best looking and most refined ones too, and somehow he found Jonathan's love more satisfying than all that.
It kind of speaks to the idea of what women were valued for, doesn't it? The culture viewed women as baby-factories and sex toys. They were not valued for their minds.
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I'm STILL not saying it was gay love, but if God thinks homosexuality is as icky as you do, why did he allow his inerrant scripture to be drafted in such a way that the merest hint of a possibility of a gay relationship could possibly be inferred for one of god's most favored OT heroes?
It wasn't drafted in an unclear way. But even as early as Genesis Satan has twisted Scripture to cast doubt on God's clearly worded commands.
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I recall thinking that when I was a kid. It raised an eyebrow, I pretty much went with your interpretation and frankly I still do ... but I wondered why god inspired Samuel to record it just so.
He didn't dictate to Samuel what to write. Samuel wrote it in his own style. But even so, there is really not a problem understanding what is meant by it. There is no indication of a sexual relationship between the men.
Nobody thought they were gay until today.
Who are you going to believe, the voices of history closer to the times
or the fantasies of modern sexualists ?
You decide...
Nobody thought they were gay until today.
Who are you going to believe, the voices of history closer to the times
or the fantasies of modern sexualists ?
You decide...
It is not normal to be homosexual. It is a deviancy because of the 1% of male homosexuals versus 99% of male heterosexuals. If you look at mathematical data, psychological data and statistical data, and can understand them, you'll see that your statement could not be further from the truth. Anyone following Biblical law would not have engaged in sodomy nor celebrated it for darn sure.
One of the things that seems twisted these days is that if you "love" someone, it is someone you want to have sex with. I'm really not getting this but young people speak of "friends with benefits". I guess that is why it is unthinkable that someone could love someone or be close to someone without it becoming a sexual relationship. Some people's lives obviously revolve around sex.
I think a lot of people don't have a clue what love is. Without God in your heart, I guess that would make sense.
I'm left-handed, and your ilk who despises anyone who deviates from their norm, used to consider lefties to be witches, and would burn us at the stake. You have finally gotten over your distain for lefties, now you are using the same type ignorance towards gay people. Your distain for homosexuals, will also pass once you find another minority to bully, and adopt as your new pubic enemy.
I do agree with your statement, "some people's lives obviously revolve around sex" the holier than thou Duggar family comes to mind.
I'm left-handed, and your ilk who despises anyone who deviates from their norm, used to consider lefties to be witches, and would burn us at the stake. You have finally gotten over your distain for lefties, now you are using the same type ignorance towards gay people. Your distain for homosexuals, will also pass once you find another minority to bully, and adopt as your new pubic enemy.
I do agree with your statement, "some people's lives obviously revolve around sex" the holier than thou Duggar family comes to mind.
As does pretty much each and every fundamentalist on this forum.
They all seem quite obsessed with gay sex, especially male, and especially anal. None of them talk about lesbians and their exceedingly low incidence of STDs.
It is not normal to be homosexual. It is a deviancy because of the 1% of male homosexuals versus 99% of male heterosexuals.
Minority does not mean abnormality in the way you are implying. Red hair with blue eyes makes up less than 1% of the world as well.
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I'm really not getting this but young people speak of "friends with benefits". I guess that is why it is unthinkable that someone could love someone or be close to someone without it becoming a sexual relationship. Some people's lives obviously revolve around sex.
