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Old 02-09-2018, 01:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
This what you mean, BaptistFundie?


Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953).
Now imagine if those kids were so completely incapable of thinking for themselves that instead of actually wanting to discuss issues on a college campus, they have designated safe places, or grief counselors to help them cope with the fact that their preferred political candidate lost.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Now imagine if those kids were so completely incapable of thinking for themselves that instead of actually wanting to discuss issues on a college campus, they have designated safe places, or grief counselors to help them cope with the fact that their preferred political candidate lost.
But are they actually any different to kids of yesteryear? I don't know - I'm just asking.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
But are they actually any different to kids of yesteryear? I don't know - I'm just asking.
I think so, yes. I see this generation as less emotionally prepared. We, as parents, have failed them.
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I think so, yes. I see this generation as less emotionally prepared. We, as parents, have failed them.
I'm not that intimately familiar with how these issues play out on college campuses but I'm open to the possibility that you've got a substantive point here about a generational shift at least.

For example when I went to Bible institute it never even crossed my mind to ask my parents to pay for it or help with it. As a matter of course, I worked at part time jobs during the school year and saved up my own earnings prior to that during high school, and paid as I went. I was in fact quite excited to have adult responsibilities and to make adult decisions. In other words, I was essentially raised with an "18 and out" ethos. And that is exactly how I set my own children's expectations.

But the trouble started in high school with my oldest (a girl). She claimed "all" the other kid's parents provided them with a car and insurance, why wouldn't I? I just told her exactly what my father told me when I turned 16: you're welcome to save your money and buy yourself a car. She was enraged by this.

And it wasn't just any car, either. I went to some effort to find a very serviceable vehicle from an elderly member of the extended family for her to purchase for $100. It was an old, lightly used car no longer driven by my wife's centenarian uncle. But guess what, she turned her nose up at that ... it was an ugly, embarrassing car for her to be seen with. Granted, it was a Buick LeSabre, but beggars can't be choosers.

Yet my daughter has always found a way to be a chooser anyway. It's not how I raised her. I am not prone to think I failed her. What I think happened is that a lot of other parents failed their children by giving them everything on a silver platter, making it hard for those of us who did not.

Later when my daughter went to college she was frosted that I didn't pay for that. But she did land a full ride scholarship, and I'm glad I didn't pay for it, because she dropped out after three semesters to get married (to an idiot about whom I was not consulted) and eventually, when she realized that wasn't going to work out, she buckled down and picked up an AS in nursing, using student loans. Somehow she has always felt this was at least partly my fault. She once said I'm "never there for her" which I take it to mean, ready to bail her out at the drop of a hat. I'm "there for her" in all the ways a father of an adult child can and should be. But that's not what she wants.

I eventually broke her of this; sometime in her 30s she gave up on it and managed to forgive me and quit having an implicit hand out every time there was a leaky roof or similar unexpected bills. I think she has finally discovered the satisfaction of fulfilling her own responsibilities to herself and her family.

Mind you, this is just one (unlovely) aspect of my daughter, in many ways she's someone I'm very proud of, an excellent and devoted mother, a real go-getter professionally, assertive without being obnoxious, etc. But there was something rather narcissistic about her dynamic with me that just came out of left field when she started high school.

All the above said ... my daughter graduated from high school in the late 1990s and the way higher education has gone up in price and the predatory nature of student loans and so forth, if my children were leaving the nest today I might be inclined to give them some assistance if I were able, just to bring their lives into the general realm of feasibility. I have softened on this, to the point that my stepson, who is just finishing his undergrad degree, has benefited from some low-key assistance. But he also has an entirely different attitude toward it. He's respectful about it. He's never actually demanded / asked / expected anything or compared his mother and I to other parents, etc. And that also makes a big difference. He also has saved up $10K of his own money (earned working at the local deli) so far which I suspect is more money than my daughter has had in one place even with 15 more years under her belt.

So there are a lot of moving parts here -- changes in society, different personalities, different economic conditions. I don't think it's as simple as "we've failed our children" and its implied "if we were just more strict they would be like kids were in the good old days".

Every generation thinks its youngsters are headed straight for the dung-heap. I'm not sure how to tell the current situation from the concern of every older generation since time immemorial.

This "snowflake" concern of yours is more likely in my mind to be a cyclic thing, where each generation goes through this oscillation between being more and less disciplined / permissive. Every child of a strict parent harbors an inner vow not to be like them, and they are not, and then THEIR children harbor on inner vow not to be so permissive. It's kind of funny to contemplate when you think of it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: In my skin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
For those that were offended by my labeling the next generation as "snowflakes" because they can't handle dissent....

This is an interesting article.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ents-faculty-/
It's still irrelevant.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate View Post
It's still irrelevant.
And you're still showing your unwillingness to actually think and discuss an issue. That's what this forum has become.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
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I think this "syndrome" is very real for many people. I still have a lot of skepticism and suspicion of fundamentalism stemming from my own childhood experiences, though I'd say "traumatic" goes a bit far.

I'm from a very religiously conservative area of Tennessee, and grew up in a Southern Baptist church, though my family wasn't particularly dogmatic. The pastor served the same congregation for sixty years, and officiated over 3,500 funerals.

Kingsport Times-News: Pastor Joseph W. Byrd

Between being a World War II vet and officiating so many funerals, he was an extremely depressing person. There was little talk of "God's love," but plenty of hellfire and brimstone. There seemed to be a lot of emotional scars in him. His God was an vengeful, vindictive deity. There was no balance there.

I had numerous "run-ins" with religious kids growing up in the early 2000s because I was "different." I didn't like Dubya. I liked heavy metal music and was kind of a "goth" kid. I was big into computers and gaming, and that wasn't popular here. Until I started lifting weights, I was bullied because I was small. I had odd mannerisms and am probably somewhere on the autism spectrum. People picked on me over that.

I was always told I was going to hell, which just fed the machine and made me act out more. I ripped up a Bible after getting the lunchroom's attention. I didn't like the religious people, and they didn't like me.

I grew out of a lot of the angst and flashiness, but to this day, I still don't understand a lot of the dogma coming out of the Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God and other Pentecostals, and other fundamentalist denominations. One of my high school teachers, who was a wonderful man and a Calvinist minister, is in my mind, completely unreasonable theologically. You have an otherwise reasonable man with the most unreasonable underpinnings. I have numerous old school friends who are conservative pastors. Some are more reasonable than others, but that's more of a matter of personality than any sort of theological "reasonableness." As a Republican, I have a really hard time even relating to this wing of the party.

A lot of the "moral issues" momentum of the Bush years crashed and burned with the Great Recession. Even around here, as conservative as it remains to this day, the "moral issues" loudness from the SBC and other usual suspects is hardly a whisper now. Kitchen table issues - the economy, the opoid crisis, etc. - have really taken front and center. We don't have the bandwidth to worry about the moral issues now.

In general, it seems that the more religiously conservative an area, the more social problems it has. The neighborhood of the church I grew up in is now one of the poorest and highest crime areas of the city. Drug busts occur daily. It seems like everyone is open opoids, yet the pews are full every Sunday. The levels of domestic violence around here are sky high, yet the same couples that beat and call the law on each other won't miss a Sunday Baptist service. New leadership has taken and soften some of Byrd's rough personal edges, but the same, tired dogma remains. I'm actually a fairly conservative guy, but political conservatives really need to cut the extreme religious wing loose.

In affluent, though still politically conservative, areas, you don't have nearly the amount of hardcore fundamentalist beliefs that you do up in the hills here in northeast TN, southwest VA, and eastern KY.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
In general, it seems that the more religiously conservative an area, the more social problems it has. The neighborhood of the church I grew up in is now one of the poorest and highest crime areas of the city. Drug busts occur daily. It seems like everyone is open opoids, yet the pews are full every Sunday.
This article might explain one reason why. Fundamentalist Christianity is a closed system that's not open to new ideas or new data, or at least not anything that contradicts its dogma. It's suspicious of outsiders, of higher education, and of science. As such it's left with just its own failed epistemology that does not tend to lead its adherents toward an accurate apprehension of reality, but away from it.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Upstate New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
This article might explain one reason why. Fundamentalist Christianity is a closed system that's not open to new ideas or new data, or at least not anything that contradicts its dogma. It's suspicious of outsiders, of higher education, and of science. As such it's left with just its own failed epistemology that does not tend to lead its adherents toward an accurate apprehension of reality, but away from it.
Good article.

It fits with my experience of Fundamentalist Christianity and of rural America.

Thankfully I never saw as much of the racism. My former denomination was established by German immigrants who settled in the North, so there was never any need to show that blacks were inherently inferior in God’s eyes and destined for servitude. But I certainly did see the suspicion of science (particularly evolution) and willful ignorance.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
This article might explain one reason why. Fundamentalist Christianity is a closed system that's not open to new ideas or new data, or at least not anything that contradicts its dogma. It's suspicious of outsiders, of higher education, and of science. As such it's left with just its own failed epistemology that does not tend to lead its adherents toward an accurate apprehension of reality, but away from it.
And I think that's a caricature of Christianity that simply is not true. First of all, what IS "Fundamentalist Christianity"? Can you define it?
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