Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I think that's a caricature of Christianity that simply is not true. First of all, what IS "Fundamentalist Christianity"? Can you define it?
Okay, I’ll bite. I’m on my iPad and will give more from my computer tomorrow.
The biggest thing that distinguishes a fundamentalist from a mainstream Christian is a strong belief in, if not obsession with, the end time. Many fundamentalists believe Christ will return imminently, basically within the expected lifespan of a middle aged adult or younger.
They often move from social target to target. In the 80s, “devil worshippers” were the boogeyman. After Columbine, it was rock and roll and goths. In the Dubya years, it was abortion and right to life. Now it’s the gays and transgenders. They tend to get preoccupied on one cause at a time.
There is also a disproportionate focus on vengeance and judgment, and almost no instruction on love. As a Southern Baptist, you’re taught to both fear and loathe your gay neighbor, who is really quite like yourself and just trying to make ends meet every payday. Differences, and usually controversial differences, are emphasized over any common ground.
Okay, I’ll bite. I’m on my iPad and will give more from my computer tomorrow.
The biggest thing that distinguishes a fundamentalist from a mainstream Christian is a strong belief in, if not obsession with, the end time. Many fundamentalists believe Christ will return imminently, basically within the expected lifespan of a middle aged adult or younger.
Yes...he will return. But Scriptures tell us we won't know when. So I don't know who these people are that you describe, but it's no one I know.
Quote:
They often move from social target to target. In the 80s, “devil worshippers” were the boogeyman. After Columbine, it was rock and roll and goths. In the Dubya years, it was abortion and right to life. Now it’s the gays and transgenders. They tend to get preoccupied on one cause at a time.
I think it was Al Gore's wife that started the censorship thing in the 80's. And yes, it should not surprise you when Christians defend the innocent and helpless.
Quote:
There is also a disproportionate focus on vengeance and judgment, and almost no instruction on love. As a Southern Baptist, you’re taught to both fear and loathe your gay neighbor, who is really quite like yourself and just trying to make ends meet every payday. Differences, and usually controversial differences, are emphasized over any common ground.
I've never been in a church that told me I should fear and loathe anyone. But I think it's easier to make strawman arguments about others than it is to understand our motives for why we do what we do.
I think it was Al Gore's wife that started the censorship thing in the 80's. And yes, it should not surprise you when Christians defend the innocent and helpless.
NO I goes way back....... Way way back Look it up
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
I've never been in a church that told me I should fear and loathe anyone. But I think it's easier to make strawman arguments about others than it is to understand our motives for why we do what we do.
OK Let me list a few
A&M church of Christ, College Station Texas. Closest thing to a hate group I have ever personally experienced. Was invited to go along with a friend who attended there. If you want a church that teaches hatred, racism, sexism, and the living embodiment of us vs them, check this out.
Growing up in Texas, I had the displeasure of crossing paths with the late W A Criswell, long time pastor of First Baptist church Dallas. Having met him personally, I know first-hand that this man, besides being a poor example of the human race, was also a racist himself, and attracted an all white audience who mostly seemed to share and support his views. I was present at a taping where he said, on TV
"The reason we have so much crime in Dallas is because we have so many uneducated blacks and Mexicans who cause all the problems"
When asked why there were no black people in his congregation he said
"We built a church in their neighborhood so that they could worship with their own people"
Of course we all know how loving and tolerant Racists are....
Our pastor growing up in small town Texas was a loving racist...hated Mexicans especially, but Catholics were a close second. Black people rarely came to our church+
One of the Sunday school teachers, (not one on the Moron list however) said
"Homosexuals are sick people, they should have no rights, they should not be allowed in the world with the rest of us"
OK Then
I met the late Weldon Gilmore, of the Christian movement in Texas a hateful pathetic little man who spewed ignorance and hatred along with Bible verses to his flock of 200 who feared him...He was nothing more than a bully, a nasty man who laughed at others but ran like a coward when confronted. He was a part of the Satanic Panic...everyone and everything that was not aligned with him was therefore "satanic" other churches, other faiths, other people......the list went on.
I'll skip over the details in the following examples, but rest assured, I heard the following groups all berated at one time or another in a Baptist church
JEWS
COMMUNISTS
ATHEISTS
DEVIL-WORSHIPERS (which included modern artists*)
CATHOLICS
MEMBERS OTHER CHURCHES IN TOWN, who refused to join up with us
And OF COURSE anyone who was not white.
SO yes they are out there. I have heard from so many people "Oh my church is not like that" BUT........when I checked it out, turned out that to some degree their church was "like that"
Fundamentalists want to cast themselves in a perfect light, claiming that god has somehow chosen and blessed them and them alone....but to those of us on the outside looking in, we can see just another social group held together by misery and magical thinking.
+ Name withheld because this person is in hiding and subject to possible criminal investigations
*The correct term was "contemporary artists" but the lack of education of the Philistines who were making the statement showed only ignorance at not understanding the difference.
Yes...he will return. But Scriptures tell us we won't know when. So I don't know who these people are that you describe, but it's no one I know.
I think it was Al Gore's wife that started the censorship thing in the 80's. And yes, it should not surprise you when Christians defend the innocent and helpless.
I've never been in a church that told me I should fear and loathe anyone. But I think it's easier to make strawman arguments about others than it is to understand our motives for why we do what we do.
Within each generation, there have been people saying that Christ's return will be within the reasonably expected lifetime of a currently living middle aged adult. When anyone says "the return is imminent," I doubt that. It hasn't yet happened, and the same warning has been broadcast repeatedly over the centuries. Prophecy can be interpreted in any number of ways to fit any number of agendas. I don't presume to be so haughty as to have a "final answer."
I was born in 1986, so the "devil worship wars" were before my time. However, the Lillelid murders back home in Greeneville, TN, in the late 1990s, were a seminal moment in this area. Some supposed "Satanists" killed a Jewish family at a rest area. That set off a local firestorm and I think these local events played a strong part in the local religious community's opinion, and in turn, my worldview. The killers in this case sent a snowball downhill that picked up virtually anyone who was of a "nontraditional" religion, and also picked up complete atheists in the local majority Christians' hateful worldview.
With that said, the Terri Schiavo debacle occurred when I was a legal adult. I remember all the "moral issues" folks protesting the decision to take her off life support. Over the years, the "right to die" movement is no longer the focus of the Christian fundamentalists. Today, the transgenders and gays are the boogeyman. In a year or two, who knows? The devil worshipers may supplant the gays again as the boogeyman du jour. Maybe it will be some newly bedeviled party? Want to take wagers?
The SBC absolutely wants you to fear the gay neighbor. That gay neighbor is, supposedly, going to try to turn you and your kids gay, and then they might molest your kids, according to the theology and social pamphlets put forth by the SBC and its allies. I've had numerous gay friends who, despite being utterly despised by their co-congregants, wanted nothing more than to be valued as a congregant and community member by their fellow churchgoers, yet were always turned away. In fact, it's a very powerful Stockholm Syndrome. These are often fine people, and upstanding community members, and often abide by a far classier personal code of ethics than is standard among east Tennesseans. Here in Appalachia, we'll turn the drug-free, positive gay family away, and promote the heterosexual couple, no matter what level of criminality and dysfunction that heterosexual family incorporates. I'm far from a liberal, but I would much rather have a child raised in a sober, positive, successful, gay family, rather than the drugged out, trailer trash so common in my neck of the woods
Even as a Republican (gasp!), I have an especially sympathetic bone to the LGBT community. One of my best friends was gay, struggled with his orientation, and I ultimately think that contributed to his suicide. I've seen many fine gay community members, who do not push a "gay lifestyle," marginalized and shut out for no reason other than their orientation, which you'd never know about in day to day business.
Within each generation, there have been people saying that Christ's return will be within the reasonably expected lifetime of a currently living middle aged adult. When anyone says "the return is imminent," I doubt that. It hasn't yet happened, and the same warning has been broadcast repeatedly over the centuries. Prophecy can be interpreted in any number of ways to fit any number of agendas. I don't presume to be so haughty as to have a "final answer."
Yes. We've seen that in recent years. The Harold Campings of the world have followers who have sold their houses and bought billboards to announce it. But do you see not see a major difference between those wingnuts and ordinary Christians whom you might call "Fundamentalist"?
And for what it's worth, imminent can also mean "at any time"...it means we think it CAN happen anytime...it doesn't mean we're going to sit on the roof and wait.
Quote:
I was born in 1986, so the "devil worship wars" were before my time. However, the Lillelid murders back home in Greeneville, TN, in the late 1990s, were a seminal moment in this area. Some supposed "Satanists" killed a Jewish family at a rest area. That set off a local firestorm and I think these local events played a strong part in the local religious community's opinion, and in turn, my worldview. The killers in this case sent a snowball downhill that picked up virtually anyone who was of a "nontraditional" religion, and also picked up complete atheists in the local majority Christians' hateful worldview.
Not really something I'm familiar with. But if it made the news, it makes sense people react. Same as with any school shooting like yesterday, now people are screaming for gun control. Different people react in different ways.
Quote:
With that said, the Terri Schiavo debacle occurred when I was a legal adult. I remember all the "moral issues" folks protesting the decision to take her off life support. Over the years, the "right to die" movement is no longer the focus of the Christian fundamentalists. Today, the transgenders and gays are the boogeyman. In a year or two, who knows? The devil worshipers may supplant the gays again as the boogeyman du jour. Maybe it will be some newly bedeviled party? Want to take wagers?
Again....I think people react to what is in the news. Gay marriage was thrust into the spotlight by politicians who said they were against it 15 years ago but then flip-flopped because they knew they'd pick up voters. The idea of trannies being allowed in a kid's bathroom was not even imagined.
Quote:
The SBC absolutely wants you to fear the gay neighbor. That gay neighbor is, supposedly, going to try to turn you and your kids gay, and then they might molest your kids, according to the theology and social pamphlets put forth by the SBC and its allies. I've had numerous gay friends who, despite being utterly despised by their co-congregants, wanted nothing more than to be valued as a congregant and community member by their fellow churchgoers, yet were always turned away. In fact, it's a very powerful Stockholm Syndrome. These are often fine people, and upstanding community members, and often abide by a far classier personal code of ethics than is standard among east Tennesseans. Here in Appalachia, we'll turn the drug-free, positive gay family away, and promote the heterosexual couple, no matter what level of criminality and dysfunction that heterosexual family incorporates. I'm far from a liberal, but I would much rather have a child raised in a sober, positive, successful, gay family, rather than the drugged out, trailer trash so common in my neck of the woods
I've attended SBC churches a few times in my past...never once heard that I should fear them. My Baptist church now certainly does not preach hate of anyone. I do believe you are repeating a talking point that you've heard.
I can tell you with all honesty I've been in churches where I knew people attending were gay. They were never told they weren't welcome, or kicked out. Perhaps your anecdotes have more to do with the region you were in than the religion.
Quote:
Even as a Republican (gasp!), I have an especially sympathetic bone to the LGBT community. One of my best friends was gay, struggled with his orientation, and I ultimately think that contributed to his suicide. I've seen many fine gay community members, who do not push a "gay lifestyle," marginalized and shut out for no reason other than their orientation, which you'd never know about in day to day business.
I've also worked with and known many gay people in my life. I have seen them struggle with it, as well. And yes--when they wear it proudly on their sleeve, or as one manager in a job I worked in did, he'd talk loudly about his sexual exploits in front of everyone, one can expect some pushback. I would say the same about any knuckle-dragger that wanted to brag about the gap-toothed woman he picked up at the bar the night before. I don't CARE what you do in your own home, but please don't push your sexual exploits on me.
Whenever I doubt why I come here to challenge Christians and other religious people, I just watch this video. So filled with this non existent so called holy spirit these Christians are. Jeff Base comes on here and wonders why atheists are mad. He especially seems so clueless.
Will be interesting read...Am living in area where cops, mental care and churches hid the sex abuse terrorizing victims and their families. The hatred and discrimination just go on and on. No one knows who is 'one of them' until you leave wrong job, unwilling mistress, new to area, ratted on boss, critical of church, exwife of wrong kind of people, activist...
Will be interesting read...Am living in area where cops, mental care and churches hid the sex abuse terrorizing victims and their families. The hatred and discrimination just go on and on. No one knows who is 'one of them' until you leave wrong job, unwilling mistress, new to area, ratted on boss, critical of church, exwife of wrong kind of people, activist...
Blondes have more fun too.
Scientists created the atom bomb, therefore science is evil, according to your reductio ad absurdum.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
