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Old 07-12-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
Reputation: 9938

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
if a person does not see any answers to the Great Questions, then they simply need to wear a different set of glasses
Just squint until it looks good, eh?

Maybe just take off the rose colored glasses and look at bare-metal reality. And be willing to see what's there to see.
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Just squint until it looks good, eh?

Maybe just take off the rose colored glasses and look at bare-metal reality. And be willing to see what's there to see.
No kidding. I thought that Tzaphkiel's solution was more or less a microcosm of the need for mental gymnastics in order to groom a religious assertion so that one may believe it while ignoring its logical shortcomings and contradictions.

I suspect that this is the impulse behind most religious doctrines.

"How do we square Jesus as god without overthrowing Yahweh? Hmmm."
" I got it! How about a sacred Trinity? One god but three sub identities!"
"Thats brilliant! We got Yahweh, we got Jesus, and we have a leftover catch-all identity to cover the areas those two do not. What shall we call that third person? Hmmm."
"Stealth-god? No, that sounds too sneaky."
"How about 'Holy Ghost'? Sounds sacred but is vague and ethereal so it will be hard to challenge."
"By George you've done it!"
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Venus
5,853 posts, read 5,281,784 times
Reputation: 10756
The problem with a Biblical based society, first and foremost, which Bible? The King James version? New International version? New Living Translation? English Standard? etc. etc. There are literally hundreds of different versions of it over the centuries. As people have done throughout history, if they don't like exactly what they read in the Bible, they just make another version of it to say something different. Also, I believe EVERY Christian picks and chooses what the Bible says and how live their lives. For instance, it says that women shouldn't be adorn with braids, gold, or pearls. How about wearing clothing made of two different kinds of material? I'm sure there are many examples of dos and don'ts in the Bible that Christians choose to disobey.



Cat
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Old 07-12-2015, 05:35 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,398,084 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
You don't imagine that in a barter system the disagreement can't arise as to how many of my apples is your horse worth?
"Money' is nothing more than a representation of value.
If they disagree they don't swap or love moves one to grant the other their wish, because having more is not a big thing and having less is not a big thing, because everyone will have ..... enough. You can't eat or wear money so why bother, if everyone is concerned about the other persons welfare.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,184,822 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
If they disagree they don't swap or love moves one to grant the other their wish, because having more is not a big thing and having less is not a big thing, because everyone will have ..... enough. You can't eat or wear money so why bother, if everyone is concerned about the other persons welfare.
Sounds like pure Communism.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:28 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,788,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
If they disagree they don't swap or love moves one to grant the other their wish, because having more is not a big thing and having less is not a big thing, because everyone will have ..... enough. You can't eat or wear money so why bother, if everyone is concerned about the other persons welfare.
What you are describing is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... Which like every other idealized system of government or economics works if there are perfect people. If you had a world made up of people who were truly selfless, who cared about each other, everyone, as much as they did themselves, then Communism, Monarchy, Plutocracy, Anarchy, Capitalism, Georgeism, any of these idologies would work perfectly. Once you have perfect people you no longer need any form of government.

The real question is could a society based on Biblical ideals or even religious ideals in general, with mankind in the moral and spiritual state it is today, survive and thrive? And I would argue that every time it has been tried to date it has not done so...Not the Sassanids, not the Han dynasty, not the Holy Roman Empire, not Calvin's Geneva, not the Ottoman Caliphate, not Cromwell's government, not the Puritans, not the Shakers, not Tolstoy's Christian Anarchism, none of these have lasted forever.

-NoCapo
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
Reputation: 9938
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
If they disagree they don't swap or love moves one to grant the other their wish, because having more is not a big thing and having less is not a big thing, because everyone will have ..... enough. You can't eat or wear money so why bother, if everyone is concerned about the other persons welfare.
Money, shmoney. Barter is just a very inefficient system for exchange of value. It will slow down disputes but not resolve them. "Things are the way they are because they god that way". Money was invented for a reason. In a barter economy I might need Internet service and my prospective ISP might need 5 goats a month for that and all I have is sheep. And maybe I don't want to be a goatherd.

Of course a modern barter economy would be more sophisticated than that, there would be online barter exchanges to abstract away such problems. Maybe they could call it Bitcoin. Oh, wait ...
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:09 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,693,440 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
No kidding. I thought that Tzaphkiel's solution was more or less a microcosm of the need for mental gymnastics in order to groom a religious assertion so that one may believe it while ignoring its logical shortcomings and contradictions.

I suspect that this is the impulse behind most religious doctrines.

"How do we square Jesus as god without overthrowing Yahweh? Hmmm."
" I got it! How about a sacred Trinity? One god but three sub identities!"
"Thats brilliant! We got Yahweh, we got Jesus, and we have a leftover catch-all identity to cover the areas those two do not. What shall we call that third person? Hmmm."
"Stealth-god? No, that sounds too sneaky."
"How about 'Holy Ghost'? Sounds sacred but is vague and ethereal so it will be hard to challenge."
"By George you've done it!"
Or, it might have gone something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDtrbVwodY
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:18 AM
 
Location: georgia
939 posts, read 795,547 times
Reputation: 704
Only if people cooperate. That means ignoring our selfish nature- which we are not capable of doing w/o The Holy Spirits help thru Jesus Christ.
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