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To me, what I see more than ever before is people being turned over to a reprobate mind as that explains why they insist that what they are doing is not a sin: https://www.learnthebible.org/a-reprobate-mind.html
I believe that our time on earth is a test. I also think many swear to be following God or Jesus when the majority of their actions indicate they are following Satan. I actually have a lot of respect for those that admit to following Satan since they actually own up to what they are doing, make no excuses whatsoever and fully acknowledge that they know where this will lead in the end.
I am not a Christian and believe that worshiping Jesus as God is a HUGE sinful activity but I firmly and without a shred of doubt know there is a God and I hope to be with Him because he represents "good" and just as my earthly father imposed rules, so does my Heavenly Father and punishment is just part of being a "father".
You can love someone but at a certain point when they show you no love or respect.............and God made us in His image.
Frankly, should I be so fortunate to be in Heaven, I don't think I'll be bored since I try to follow the laws of God and once all the evil and vice are gone, it will be that much easier. That is actually part of the point, if you like sinful activities so much, Heaven would be boring for you except for the ones who feel that sinful activities will thrive in Heaven and there will be no upcoming punishment for them - I saw a thread like that, endless sex with no babies unless you want them and no STDs. Well, we all have our thoughts about Heaven but..................
So, yes, some would work out better in Hell and would be bored in Heaven. Choice is good.
Someone rep'd me and said I should not be discussing the thread if I didn't know what "dogma" was. Funny, if people here at C-D, especially in the religious forums had to understand what they were talking about, "religion", especially when it comes to the Bible and God, you could hear a pin drop here.
I know the hostility toward God is alive and well here. The hope that one can sin endlessly and a loving God would not punish them. Read the Bible people. If you don't believe in God or the Bible, then why endlessly chatter on about it?
So, OP, is one not supposed to use the Bible to establish facts, it that what is considered "dogma" to you? Bible will stand long after we are all gone. The Bible is not so unlike real life and what goes on around us. The principles play out with or without the Bible. It is so basis.
My personal belief is that rules are in place for a purpose, if you don't follow them, you will be punished. Will it be forever in the case of Hell, yes it will. I deal absolutely great with the idea that those that go to Hell will be there forever and, as a matter of fact, that's what gets me through the day! Everyone started out with a choice and the fact that you make a choice and suffer the rewards or punishments is universal.
Religious dogma? I could not find a definition for that. Perhaps a different word would have been a better choice. Seriously, you cannot possibly discuss Hell and eternal damnation eliminating the Bible or God. But I understand wanting to have your cake and eat it too! Hell is an eternal sentence. It is a fair and just punishment. It isn't like you can go there and then decide "oops", just like prison, "Oh, this isn't what I thought it would be like so I'll just go now."
If you don't have a belief system, you can't discuss it Hell because it wouldn't exist to you. If you don't have a belief system then you don't have to worry about the consequences as it will just all fall into place in the end.
To me, what I see is a lot of desperate souls looking for no Hell or in the case a way out if they can't tough it out. Does that in the scope of things really make any sense. Surely if you wonder if some punishment is going to last forever, life in prison, a reasonable and sane person thinks through whether the crime is worth the sentence. In most all situations, there is punishment and reward and that doesn't come from any set of beliefs, that comes from opening your eyes and looking at the world around you for a minute, leaving your room or your computer screen. It is all SO basis.
Oh, I still don't understand "dogma" and I don't lie as most people do based on my beliefs but then, I couldn't expect everyone to realize that now could I? We ALL don't lie which is another false belief.
When are some of you going to get it that 'we' have no hostility toward something that we don't believe exists?
There is certainly distain for the ideas and attitudes and actions of some of you people that profess are what your god dictates..
When are some of you going to get it that 'we' have no hostility toward something that we don't believe exists?
There is certainly distain for the ideas and attitudes and actions of some of you people that profess are what your god dictates..
It suits them to conflate disrespect for ideas and attitudes with disrespect (no, let's amp it up a little, "hostility") to their god. It fits their persecution narrative, for one thing, and it enables ad hominem methods of dismissing our arguments. It simply reflects their inability to mount a logical defense of their ideology, and thus the need for various diversions from the burden of proof that they rightly bear for their extraordinary claims.
Even the feigned confusion over a straightforward term like "dogma" is indicative of this. Religious dogma is asserted principles from religious authority that are said to be axiomatic and incontrovertible. There is nothing not to understand about that! However, the definition carries within it the concept that dogma is unsubstantiated and imposed -- another concept to be avoided at all costs if one is to maintain one's faith.
So the answer to your question is that they are going to push this false notion that we are mad at god despite that it's utter rubbish and no matter the denials. As an atheist I have learned never to expect a theist to be willing to come to the source concerning what I actually think and feel. They will ask anyone but me what's actually going on in between my ears. Because after all I'm an atheist, and therefore a liar.
Someone rep'd me and said I should not be discussing the thread if I didn't know what "dogma" was. Funny, if people here at C-D, especially in the religious forums had to understand what they were talking about, "religion", especially when it comes to the Bible and God, you could hear a pin drop here.
I know the hostility toward God is alive and well here. The hope that one can sin endlessly and a loving God would not punish them. Read the Bible people. If you don't believe in God or the Bible, then why endlessly chatter on about it?
So, OP, is one not supposed to use the Bible to establish facts, it that what is considered "dogma" to you? Bible will stand long after we are all gone. The Bible is not so unlike real life and what goes on around us. The principles play out with or without the Bible. It is so basis.
My personal belief is that rules are in place for a purpose, if you don't follow them, you will be punished. Will it be forever in the case of Hell, yes it will. I deal absolutely great with the idea that those that go to Hell will be there forever and, as a matter of fact, that's what gets me through the day! Everyone started out with a choice and the fact that you make a choice and suffer the rewards or punishments is universal.
Religious dogma? I could not find a definition for that. Perhaps a different word would have been a better choice. Seriously, you cannot possibly discuss Hell and eternal damnation eliminating the Bible or God. But I understand wanting to have your cake and eat it too! Hell is an eternal sentence. It is a fair and just punishment. It isn't like you can go there and then decide "oops", just like prison, "Oh, this isn't what I thought it would be like so I'll just go now."
If you don't have a belief system, you can't discuss it Hell because it wouldn't exist to you. If you don't have a belief system then you don't have to worry about the consequences as it will just all fall into place in the end.
To me, what I see is a lot of desperate souls looking for no Hell or in the case a way out if they can't tough it out. Does that in the scope of things really make any sense. Surely if you wonder if some punishment is going to last forever, life in prison, a reasonable and sane person thinks through whether the crime is worth the sentence. In most all situations, there is punishment and reward and that doesn't come from any set of beliefs, that comes from opening your eyes and looking at the world around you for a minute, leaving your room or your computer screen. It is all SO basis.
Oh, I still don't understand "dogma" and I don't lie as most people do based on my beliefs but then, I couldn't expect everyone to realize that now could I? We ALL don't lie which is another false belief.
That's pretty good going. At least 8 false arguments in one not overlong post.
fallacy 1. we are 'hostile' (let that one pass) towards God because we want to sin and not be punished. We disbelieve the god and hell claims because they are not believable. We no more fear being sent to hell by YHWH than you fear being sent to hell by Allah.
fallacy 2, we talk at length about it because we are putting the case why God -belief doesn't stack up.
fallacy 3, triumphalist claims that the Bible will win out are neither here nor there.
fallacy 4, your personal opinion without anything resembling a case is equally irrelevant
fallacy 5 and 6 in one line. Religious dogma is perfectly fine if, as you claim, you know what it means/ hell without any chance of remission is not more fair and just than being sent there, just because one failed to believe something that didn't make sense.
fallacy 7. of course, if one doesn't have a belief system (supposing that's possible) it is still possible to discuss those of others.
fallacy 8. what you see is what you see. That is not the same as seeing what is. You see what your bias requires in the way of confirmation.
It suits them to conflate disrespect for ideas and attitudes with disrespect (no, let's amp it up a little, "hostility") to their god. It fits their persecution narrative, for one thing, and it enables ad hominem methods of dismissing our arguments. It simply reflects their inability to mount a logical defense of their ideology, and thus the need for various diversions from the burden of proof that they rightly bear for their extraordinary claims.
Yes! It is amazing how religious organised belief systems are peddled which are morally reprehensible in today's modern world and yet are accepted as 'okay' by governing bodies [which are able to penalize and reward] and allowed to be spoken out by the religious (which -fair enough is what freedom of speech is about) BUT those same bodies which allow also censor and punish those who try to make a stand and speak their minds as to the nature of the offense of the religious belief system are to them.
Religion it seems has support for its offensive belief systems and the religious can complain and cry 'foul' and have something done about it but the non religious are not always afforded the same.
It is true that often we don;t complain to the 'authorities' but directly to the offenders, and then the offenders run and complain to the authorities.
Maybe we should just shut the mouth and ignore the offense? Or hope that the authority will be replaced with something far fairer as the future unrolls...
Quote:
Even the feigned confusion over a straightforward term like "dogma" is indicative of this. Religious dogma is asserted principles from religious authority that are said to be axiomatic and incontrovertible. There is nothing not to understand about that! However, the definition carries within it the concept that dogma is unsubstantiated and imposed -- another concept to be avoided at all costs if one is to maintain one's faith.
Yes. Whatever that faith might be. If it offends we all should have the right to say so.
Quote:
So the answer to your question is that they are going to push this false notion that we are mad at god despite that it's utter rubbish and no matter the denials. As an atheist I have learned never to expect a theist to be willing to come to the source concerning what I actually think and feel. They will ask anyone but me what's actually going on in between my ears. Because after all I'm an atheist, and therefore a liar.
Apparently when it comes to The Truth being offensive to all liars, it is not even a religious topic. Unless of course religious peps say it is.
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