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Likely because its too weighted down with silly questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
Gotta give you that one texdav
It's not a silly question at all. I'm often told that consciousness is something non-physical or "spiritual" and yet my consciousness remains on earth, as if it were affected by gravity (like any other mass).
Traditionally, the soul is considered to be non-material. And yet, my soul is affected by gravity, as if it had mass. Obviously, my consciousness is still here on earth band not floating out in space (even if my detractors may occasionally beg to differ).
What's going on here? Why hasn't my massless soul already floated off into outer space, unaffected by gravity?
I don't want to waste my time sparring with theists over something that is not their position. Their claim, when pressed about stuff like this, is that the soul (or spirit, the terms are rather hazily defined and there is some debate concerning the exact relation of the two) -- or at any rate the supernatural / immaterial aspect they claim humans possess, finds its expression in the physical body during life but they do not specifically claim that it's physically located in the body or anywhere, really. One does not search for it with X-Rays. It's a claim that's kept carefully abstract and nonspecific lest it be shown for the nonsense that it actually is, such as by someone attempting to weigh a body before / during / after death and still finding a negligible "mixed" weight change that, even if its not pure "noise", could have a dozen far less fanciful explanations than that it's a soul or some material tether of a soul.
Soul, spirit, life-force, elan vital and the like are all a sort of ineffable je ne sais quoi that is supposed to be a magical ingredient that separates life from non-life. It is one of the few remaining gaps for gods to hide in, given that science hasn't yet determined beyond the early hypothetical phase of informed speculation how life arose originally. Also it's sustained by our subjective "uncanny valley" reaction to things that don't quite look like living persons ... things like corpses, computer generated imagery of humans, and human-like robots. Our evolved ability to identify people like us and our fellow tribal members has tricked us into thinking that some special quality of the living must depart and persist separately upon death.
It's not a silly question at all. I'm often told that consciousness is something non-physical or "spiritual" and yet my consciousness remains on earth, as if it were affected by gravity (like any other mass).
Yeah but they're talking about magic ... it doesn't have to obey physical laws.
Besides there are all sorts of pseduoscientific theories about discarnate consciousness, such as that consciousness has no particular location in "this reality" but that the brain acts as a transceiver for it.
Mosts theists and religionists will (with some justification) just tell you that you are decrying something that they don't claim. Most wouldn't suggest that spirit has mass or physical location as properties and would feel no need to defend such a notion.
A better question IMO is if "supernatural" is "beyond nature" then how logically can we even discuss the supernatural, including the soul? We are creatures of the natural world, with 5 natural senses. As soon as we can perceive anything outside of nature, by definition that thing is now PART of nature and no longer supernatural.
We inherently can have no information or even useful interest in what is outside of nature, time, etc., and anything that actually penetrates the natural world (such as an incarnate god) is no longer apart from it, but part OF it.
In other words, "supernatural" is a useless and logically unsupportable concept. That takes care of spirit and a whole lot of other stuff.
It's not a silly question at all. I'm often told that consciousness is something non-physical or "spiritual" and yet my consciousness remains on earth, as if it were affected by gravity (like any other mass).
I wouldn't base a disbelief on this line of logic freak. There are massless particles that are effected by gravity. And there is no reason it has to be massless. so it kinda kills the line of logic imho. Its more that they have it wrong as taught than it wouldn't float away kinda thing.
A better question IMO is if "supernatural" is "beyond nature" then how logically can we even discuss the supernatural, including the soul? We are creatures of the natural world, with 5 natural senses. As soon as we can perceive anything outside of nature, by definition that thing is now PART of nature and no longer supernatural.
We inherently can have no information or even useful interest in what is outside of nature, time, etc., and anything that actually penetrates the natural world (such as an incarnate god) is no longer apart from it, but part OF it.
In other words, "supernatural" is a useless and logically unsupportable concept. That takes care of spirit and a whole lot of other stuff.
it's an old definition. It means "beyond what we know" more than "beyond what we can know". But since when do some people let knowledge statements ever get in the way of their personal belief statements for anyway.
I personally never let facts get in the way of my opinions.
It's not a silly question at all. I'm often told that consciousness is something non-physical or "spiritual" and yet my consciousness remains on earth, as if it were affected by gravity (like any other mass).
Oh, come on.....a little humor is a good thing. It was a cute pun.
The soul is anchored to the body,its the body that is influenced by gravity, when you die your soul is released from being trapped in the body and then will be free to defy gravity.
The soul is anchored to the body,its the body that is influenced by gravity, when you die your soul is released from being trapped in the body and then will be free to defy gravity.
So it could be caught as it's leaving the body if the corpse was surrounded by a tent or a box or something?
The soul is anchored to the body,its the body that is influenced by gravity, when you die your soul is released from being trapped in the body and then will be free to defy gravity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
So it could be caught as it's leaving the body if the corpse was surrounded by a tent or a box or something?
The soul seems to behave much like a volume of gas originating from the body.
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