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Old 08-26-2015, 11:51 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
And remember when Christians fell all over themselves to defend these non-Christians who were using their religious faith as an excuse to discriminate?


Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News




Taxi proposal gets sharp response - StarTribune.com

And what happened in the end? The cab drivers were given a choice - to do their job or go find another job.


Minnesota's Muslim cab drivers face crackdown | Reuters

And this all happened amid a deafening silence from those who are now wringing their hands over the 'rights' of this poor clerk in Kentucky. They try to present their position as one of principle, but like you suggest all we have to do is plug that principle into a situation that doesn't provide the end-result they want and - poof! - they abandon their so-called principle in an instant.
I draw the distinction between luxury and necessity. A cab driver provides a needed service that can cause harm if not fulfilled. So does a doctor or a plumber. A Christian baker is providing a luxury. The only harm is inconvenience and someone being offended.

I wouldn't support a Christian doctor or plumber refuses service to a gay person either. That is morally wrong in those circumstances.
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:13 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,779,219 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I draw the distinction between luxury and necessity. A cab driver provides a needed service that can cause harm if not fulfilled. So does a doctor or a plumber. A Christian baker is providing a luxury. The only harm is inconvenience and someone being offended.

I wouldn't support a Christian doctor or plumber refuses service to a gay person either. That is morally wrong in those circumstances.
So you don't support this county clerk? Because from where I sit, a government office responsible for legally binding marriage contracts is pretty much a necessity. Especially so, if a cab is considered a necessity.

-NoCapo
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Old 08-26-2015, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,770,079 times
Reputation: 40161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I draw the distinction between luxury and necessity. A cab driver provides a needed service that can cause harm if not fulfilled. So does a doctor or a plumber. A Christian baker is providing a luxury. The only harm is inconvenience and someone being offended.
Nice try in shifting the conversation away from the topic of this thread - marriage licenses - to a baker.

So you have no problem with Maurice Bessinger, who refused on religious grounds to serve black customers in his restaurant, until federal courts forced him to knock it off? After all, BBQ isn't a necessity, and it was his sincere religious belief that whites and blacks should not be dining together.
Maurice Bessinger, BBQ baron and unrepentant racist, dies | Haire of the Dog | Charleston City Paper

Nor, for that matter, are taxi cabs at the Minneapolis airport. First, the airport is serviced by Metro Transit buses as well as light rail, both of which accept pets and service animals. Second, the notion that buying/transporting some duty-free liquor is a necessity borders on the idiotic.

And as for necessities, well, going to the show isn't a necessity, so I can only presume you're fine with this:


Sorry, Jeff. I pointed out the raging hypocrisy from your ilk, and instead of quietly letting it pass you rose to the occasion and doubled-down on the incoherence. First, you tried to pass off bring a bottle of booze into a taxi as a necessity. Then you conjured up some cockamamie logic by which whites-only lunch counters and no-coloreds-allowed theaters should be perfectly legal. Never head of the notion that when you're in a hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging, have you?

My entire point was to prove that you and yours have no principles, only demands for special treatment for you and yours only, and you can't figure out a way to worm your way free of that reality.

That unrepentant racist restaurant owner? That's you. It really is.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:23 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
So you don't support this county clerk? Because from where I sit, a government office responsible for legally binding marriage contracts is pretty much a necessity. Especially so, if a cab is considered a necessity.

-NoCapo
No, marriage is not a necessity. There are many people out there that do just fine without tying the knot.
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:32 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,779,219 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
No, marriage is not a necessity. There are many people out there that do just fine without tying the knot.
Not marriage, Jeff. Equal protection under the law. Those gay couple are legally allowed to get married, and one of the things that must take place for them to exercise their legal right to do so is to get a marriage license from the local government. This particular government official is trying to deny a legitimate and legally required government service to a couple based on religious beliefs.

If I follow your logic, one would have to argue that county or circuit clerks who hold a religious belief that Black people should not vote should be allowed to deny voter registration based on race. Even though Black Americans have the right to vote, you are arguing here that if a government official feels that their legal rights violate the personal beliefs of the official, he or she should be allowed to discriminate.

-NoCapo
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:37 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Nice try in shifting the conversation away from the topic of this thread - marriage licenses - to a baker.

So you have no problem with Maurice Bessinger, who refused on religious grounds to serve black customers in his restaurant, until federal courts forced him to knock it off? After all, BBQ isn't a necessity, and it was his sincere religious belief that whites and blacks should not be dining together.
Maurice Bessinger, BBQ baron and unrepentant racist, dies | Haire of the Dog | Charleston City Paper

Nor, for that matter, are taxi cabs at the Minneapolis airport. First, the airport is serviced by Metro Transit buses as well as light rail, both of which accept pets and service animals. Second, the notion that buying/transporting some duty-free liquor is a necessity borders on the idiotic.

And as for necessities, well, going to the show isn't a necessity, so I can only presume you're fine with this:


Sorry, Jeff. I pointed out the raging hypocrisy from your ilk, and instead of quietly letting it pass you rose to the occasion and doubled-down on the incoherence. First, you tried to pass off bring a bottle of booze into a taxi as a necessity. Then you conjured up some cockamamie logic by which whites-only lunch counters and no-coloreds-allowed theaters should be perfectly legal. Never head of the notion that when you're in a hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging, have you?

My entire point was to prove that you and yours have no principles, only demands for special treatment for you and yours only, and you can't figure out a way to worm your way free of that reality.

That unrepentant racist restaurant owner? That's you. It really is.
Nice trying shifting the conversation back to racism and then having the nerve to paint me as a racist. The race comparison fails because there is no moral justification, religious or not, to support it. We are all the same human beings. Sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice. People even swap out their orientation out of curiosity or whatever. By that means, you are choosing to make yourself different from the norm of society. Homosexuality goes against God's laws, nature's laws, the human body, and traditional cultural laws. There's nothing within a person's race that does such things. You do realize that racism can exist within other races besides white and black right?
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Nice trying shifting the conversation back to racism and then having the nerve to paint me as a racist. The race comparison fails because there is no moral justification, religious or not, to support it. We are all the same human beings. Sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice. People even swap out their orientation out of curiosity or whatever. By that means, you are choosing to make yourself different from the norm of society. Homosexuality goes against God's laws, nature's laws, the human body, and traditional cultural laws. There's nothing within a person's race that does such things. You do realize that racism can exist within other races besides white and black right?
I used to think you were a decent, albeit misguided person.

I no longer think that.

You're dangerious.
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,770,079 times
Reputation: 40161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Nice trying shifting the conversation back to racism and then having the nerve to paint me as a racist. The race comparison fails because there is no moral justification, religious or not, to support it. We are all the same human beings. Sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice. People even swap out their orientation out of curiosity or whatever. By that means, you are choosing to make yourself different from the norm of society. Homosexuality goes against God's laws, nature's laws, the human body, and traditional cultural laws. There's nothing within a person's race that does such things. You do realize that racism can exist within other races besides white and black right?
Nope, I addressed precisely your criteria for discrimination, which you set forth below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I draw the distinction between luxury and necessity. A cab driver provides a needed service that can cause harm if not fulfilled. So does a doctor or a plumber. A Christian baker is providing a luxury. The only harm is inconvenience and someone being offended.

I wouldn't support a Christian doctor or plumber refuses service to a gay person either. That is morally wrong in those circumstances.
I applied your logic. You didn't like where that logic led, so you blamed me. Utterly predictable, Jeff. Keep digging.

By the way, I noticed how you fled from even responding to the destruction of your laughable claim that transporting a bottle of vodka was a 'necessity'. That, too, is par for the course for you.

Tell you what, Jeff - stop setting forth principles that don't work for you and I won't keep pointing out that they don't work for you. Stop inanely asserting that taking a taxi is a necessity when it's obviously not and I'l stop pointing out that you're making false claims. Deal?

PS - I'm not gay, though I see that you think I am. You just can't get it through your head that straight people have interests in assuring that gays are not discriminated against, can you? You need to stop projecting, Jeff. I'm not like you. I'm not all about assuring that 'my kind' gets to dominate others. That's you. Let me repeat, because it is very important: I am not like you.

PPS - You're an impressive glutton for logical punishment, Jeff. No amount of being demonstrably and profoundly wrong deters you from seeking ever more ways to make yourself look foolish. Keep it up. I mean that. It only helps my cause and hurts yours.

PPPS - Too bad for the bigot you're championing - the Sixth Circuit has ruled that she doesn't get to keep discriminating as her futile appeal plays out.
http://www.courier-journal.com/story...lerk/32426123/

PPPS - I guess Kim is so pious that she can't marry gays, because that would taint the holy sanctity of not only her current marriage but her three failed ones as well.

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Old 08-26-2015, 04:10 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,612,234 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Nice trying shifting the conversation back to racism and then having the nerve to paint me as a racist. The race comparison fails because there is no moral justification, religious or not, to support it. We are all the same human beings. Sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice. People even swap out their orientation out of curiosity or whatever. By that means, you are choosing to make yourself different from the norm of society. Homosexuality goes against God's laws, nature's laws, the human body, and traditional cultural laws. There's nothing within a person's race that does such things. You do realize that racism can exist within other races besides white and black right?
Have you never heard that black skin is the mark God set upon Cain from the pulpit? I assure you, to some racism is a very sincerely held religious belief.
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Old 08-26-2015, 04:27 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,301,683 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I used to think you were a decent, albeit misguided person.

I no longer think that.

You're dangerious.

Yes he will aways change his stance to back discrimination against gays and come up with an excuse for it, he once agrued that it was a business right unless it is a necessaity now he claims even governments can discrimination unless it is a necessity. Is a marriage any less necessary than having your second toilet in your house operating? Yes until a plumber refuses to go to a gay person's house and then he will claim their right to refuse as it is not needed to do that work.
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