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Old 01-26-2008, 08:06 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,062,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
No, not anyone who believes in Christ - a follower of Christ.
Agreed. Isn't there some scripture in James that says the demons believe in God?

And Satan, He sure believes in Jesus.

Obviously, the word 'believe' in scripture must carry something along with it.

Commitment, me thinks!
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 8,564,030 times
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On this topic, you have to realize that many religions view any religion other than theirs as being incorrect and not true. So it stands to reason that there are some Christian religions that would believe that Catholics aren't Christian. I know that my parents believe this. They also believe that the pope is the physical embodiment of the antichrist.

Anyway, if someone believes they are a Christian, follows Christian ideals, and calls themself a Christian, aren't they? And I think it would be pretty easy to tell if they were just posing as a Christian, because their actions or words would eventually betray them.
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
Catholics, who do believe in Christ were the original Christians, however Catholic (= universal) was all that was needed to describe them until the Martin Luther Heresy. Once Martin Luther splintered off (and the splintering kept going) there became Christians + Catholics. Catholics usually being held out as being different.
Thank you and for all the great posts that seem to harmonize with this thought.

Right.

In the Western Mediterranean and before 1519 (M.L.), there was a only a single reference to Christians (which automatically meant Catholics who looked to Rome for guidance). After this, Protestantism was born and it multiplied exponentially. I don't have any heartburn over this as I have met and am friends with wonderful people in all of the Christian branches, and they are truly Christians in action.

However, what happened is that, once "across the pond" (i.e. US and Canada, at the very least), the labels changed.

1. Protestants went from historically being referred to as Protestants to now being Christians (especially when non-denominational or in a newer church organization).

2. Catholics went from historically being referred to as Christians to now being identified as Catholics because of their adherence to the original church as formed.

Sidebar: my best friend growing up was (still is-LOL) Cuban. Once he got divorced, he found himself looking for churches that had ministries/social functions and found them in abundance in Protestant churches so he "switched over" from Catholicism. I love to tease him and ask when he is coming back! He said that he won't because the Catholic church is not "relational" (the buzz word that we Catholics are lacking because of the formality of our Mass ritual) whereas his church (he has been AOG, Baptist, wherever the good social program is) is "relational." Funny, huh?
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Cali
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Well other christians hate the idea that catholics say prayers to the Virgin Mary. JWs, Fundamentalists, Pentecostals, and others despise this about catholicism.

Its rather ironic that I've heard far nicer things said about Mary from Muslims and even Jews than I've heard from non-catholic christians.
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:41 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,250,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroGuy View Post
Well other christians hate the idea that catholics say prayers to the Virgin Mary. JWs, Fundamentalists, Pentecostals, and others despise this about catholicism.

Its rather ironic that I've heard far nicer things said about Mary from Muslims and even Jews than I've heard from non-catholic christians.
Catholics sometimes pray to God through the intercession of others, including Mary. We don't pray to Mary, that is, our prayer's final destination is not Mary, but God. In addition, while the use of intercession from Saints is frequently utilized in the Catholic religion, it is not required.

It's just like when you ask another person to pray for you that's living, except in addition to that, we ask dead Saints, who are certainly closer to God than we are, to pray for us.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
We don't pray to Mary, that is, our prayer's final destination is not Mary, but God. In addition, while the use of intercession from Saints is frequently utilized in the Catholic religion, it is not required.

It's just like when you ask another person to pray for you that's living, except in addition to that, we ask dead Saints, who are certainly closer to God than we are, to pray for us.
A priest brought this up in a homily...that others have an "issue" with the role of Mary in our church. He stated that we HONOR her instead of worship her. We also pray to her for intercession THE SAME WAY I would ask a friend to include me in their night time prayers when I'm looking for work (right now-LOL), planning a relocation or going through a rite of passage. All Christians ask people they know to pray for them or pray with them.

Mary and Joseph had an undeniable pivotal role in the life of Jesus. They had a most precarious job in parenting the most important human being in the history of our universe...and with no preparation and no resources. The whole "chapter" is really awe-inspiring and they deserve our respect.
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Old 01-27-2008, 06:33 AM
 
25,084 posts, read 13,671,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Seriously. I used to sit in a location at work not far from the desk of a Methodist minister's son. He liked to talk about Christianity. He seemed to hold it in a different light and make an off-handed comment about Catholics not being Christian.

I kept it to myself but thought it was so stupid that I couldn't get mad.

To me, any religion whose scriptural works are ONLY and BOTH the Old Testament and the New Testament, with the emphasis that your faith is put in practice largely through the New Testament, is a Christian religion. Period.

I'm not a religious expert, but I don't know what to make of religions that profess to be Christian but have OTHER books. I just don't know.

So, are Catholics Christians in your mind?
I don't agree with most of the Catholic dotrine, but I think many of them are Christians. Some r probably better Christians than others, but that can be said of any Christian. In the end "the proof is in the pudding." I read a post where some one said u can say u r a millionaire, but the proof is in your bank account. Well anyone including Catholics can claim to be Christian, but the proof is in WHOM they follow and how they live.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:35 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,240,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I don't agree with most of the Catholic dotrine, but I think many of them are Christians. Some r probably better Christians than others, but that can be said of any Christian. In the end "the proof is in the pudding." I read a post where some one said u can say u r a millionaire, but the proof is in your bank account. Well anyone including Catholics can claim to be Christian, but the proof is in WHOM they follow and how they live.

sun queen,
Perhaps I an misreading the bolded part of your post, but it sounds to me that perhaps you feel that if a Catholic follows doctrine; believes the Pope to be infallable, prays to Mary for intercession, etc., etc., then they are not considered to be Christian. I guess my proplem is in "I think many of them are Christians". I am not baiting or trying to start an arguement. But I think that if this is how you feel, this is the type of discussion that the OP was looking for. Perhaps there could be more clarification on both sides. IMHO.
Peace be with you,
<>< weather...
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:46 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,250,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
I don't agree with most of the Catholic dotrine, but I think many of them are Christians. Some r probably better Christians than others, but that can be said of any Christian. In the end "the proof is in the pudding." I read a post where some one said u can say u r a millionaire, but the proof is in your bank account. Well anyone including Catholics can claim to be Christian, but the proof is in WHOM they follow and how they live.
When you say "WHOM", who do you think Catholics follow?

You seem to be misinformed about things which is not uncommon when it comes to people who are informed about a subject matter from people who are not one of them. If you want to learn about Catholocism, ask a Catholic, not a Protestant. If you REALLY want to seek the truth, then do some investigating on your own. Go to your own service on Sunday, but also go to a Catholic Mass nearby. Just sit in the back and listen to what is discussed with an open mind and open heart and then decide if Catholics are Christians or not. I'm sorry, but this forum will prove nothing to you. You have to see it for yourself. No one will bother you or ask you questions. Just sit, watch, and listen.
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,131,420 times
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I've noticed that American fundamentalists are sometimes outspoken against Catholics, Mormons and other faiths so that sort of rhetoric isn't surprising to me. Religions have a long history of opposing each other and there's alot of ridiculing and belittling between rival sects. This is actually pretty mild compared to how bad it can get. In Iraq and other parts of the world they're killing each other.
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