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Old 01-28-2008, 01:21 PM
 
479 posts, read 979,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
Again, why does the doctrine matter if the person themselves is living the best life they can and following what they believe to be true? Anything else is just window-dressing.
Because God's doctrine is one of Truth, not of error. As we grow in Truth, we should ideally try to follow it in the best way we can.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 8,347,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
Because God's doctrine is one of Truth, not of error. As we grow in Truth, we should ideally try to follow it in the best way we can.
Your Truth is not necessarily someone else's Truth. Everyone follows a different path. It's your actions towards other people along the way that matter.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:26 PM
 
479 posts, read 979,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
Your Truth is not necessarily someone else's Truth. Everyone follows a different path. It's your actions towards other people along the way that matter.
That's not what the bible Teaches. The Word of God(Jesus) is the only Truth. If we follow Christ, we need to make sure that we follow and adhere to his Word.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Maine
13,191 posts, read 17,886,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
Your Truth is not necessarily someone else's Truth.
Then it isn't Truth.

A circle is a circle. Circles are round. If you tell me a circle is square, I'm going to disagree, not assure you that circles can be square in your worldview.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:57 PM
 
14,753 posts, read 25,650,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
That's not what the bible Teaches. The Word of God(Jesus) is the only Truth. If we follow Christ, we need to make sure that we follow and adhere to his Word.
The New Testament is full of examples where we are "to love our neighbor as ourselves" (that is, how we treat others) and to realize that "he who is without sin can cast the first stone" (that is, compassion and being unjudgmental). Jesus taught by example and by explanation. His Truth is in the New Testament. Why are we getting into semantics? If a person lives by Jesus's teachings, as made "portable" through scriptures and the spreading of the Word as in the New Testament, then that person is, at least, attempting to be Christ-like.

As is often the case, it seems like the far reaches of our spectrum (the Catholics and the Protestant religions more like ours, that is, the Episcopals and the Lutherans) are debating semantics and finessing finer differences with the more fundamentalist sects of Christians.

I must ask you two questions:
- Please define the Truth. Is it not the Word of God per the New Testament?
- Wouldn't a Catholic or a Greek Orthodox who tries with all their might to adhere to the Word of God as they have learned in the New Testament and is remorseful for their transgressions be saved just as would a New Testament-abiding member of the AOG, Foursquare, Baptist or non-denominational churches?
Please respond, because, at the end of the day, this is what matters and what the thread seeks to gauge.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:08 PM
 
479 posts, read 979,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
The New Testament is full of examples where we are "to love our neighbor as ourselves" (that is, how we treat others) and to realize that "he who is without sin can cast the first stone" (that is, compassion and being unjudgmental). Jesus taught by example and by explanation. His Truth is in the New Testament. Why are we getting into semantics? If a person lives by Jesus's teachings, as made "portable" through scriptures and the spreading of the Word as in the New Testament, then that person is, at least, attempting to be Christ-like.

As is often the case, it seems like the far reaches of our spectrum (the Catholics and the Protestant religions more like ours, that is, the Episcopals and the Lutherans) are debating semantics and finessing finer differences with the more fundamentalist sects of Christians.

I must ask you two questions:
- Please define the Truth. Is it not the Word of God per the New Testament?
- Wouldn't a Catholic or a Greek Orthodox who tries with all their might to adhere to the Word of God as they have learned in the New Testament and is remorseful for their transgressions be saved just as would a New Testament-abiding member of the AOG, Foursquare, Baptist or non-denominational churches?
Please respond, because, at the end of the day, this is what matters and what the thread seeks to gauge.
People can be Christ-Like, but they are not exemplifying the Truth and Love of God's Word. It is not my position to judge who is and who is of God based on what they know of the Truth, it is just my position to inform people of the Truth. The Holy Spirit will either convict that person of the Truth, or the individual will continue walking in error. We all must pray that God softens our heart to receive the Truth of his Word, despite us not liking or being comfortable with what's being stated. That being said, I'll bow out of this one, as I think the point has already been made.

Grace,

Stephen
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:40 PM
 
14,753 posts, read 25,650,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
People can be Christ-Like, but they are not exemplifying the Truth and Love of God's Word. It is not my position to judge who is and who is of God based on what they know of the Truth, it is just my position to inform people of the Truth. The Holy Spirit will either convict that person of the Truth, or the individual will continue walking in error. We all must pray that God softens our heart to receive the Truth of his Word, despite us not liking or being comfortable with what's being stated. That being said, I'll bow out of this one, as I think the point has already been made.

Grace,

Stephen
It's just ambiguous and kind of ivory tower. Going to church is largely for inspiration and interpretation. That is, the difficult metaphors and examples need to be reduced to simpler terms so we can then put them into action and essentially ask, every step of the way, WWJD. If you try living in a WWJD mode, than you are hungering for the Holy Spirit, for the Truth, for the Word and for salvation. These all become integral and intertwined.

I don't know where you are from geographically, how you were raised or anything else. It does not matter. What I would like to point out is that we do the best we can without our context.

That is:
If you were born in Helsinki, you will probably go to a Lutheran church for your Christian nurturing. If in Athens, to a Greek Orthodox one. If in Lisbon, to a Catholic one. If in Atlanta, GA, to a Baptist one. If on a farm in the Midwest, to a Foursquare or AOG or Methodist or fundamentalist one.
These people are ALL looking for the love and grace of God and they all want more or less the same thing.

This is what the exponential growth of Christianity has done, it has made us bicker over semantics instead of looking at how people act, speak, think and hope...and that is so sad.

I almost knew starting this thread would set off the "canyon" I am seeing.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: oregon
245 posts, read 558,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
Because God's doctrine is one of Truth, not of error. As we grow in Truth, we should ideally try to follow it in the best way we can.
which truth would that be? an eye for an eye, vengence is mine, or turn the other cheek? are you sugesting we all go into the casino, overturn the gaming tables and throw chairs at people?
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 8,347,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
That's not what the bible Teaches. The Word of God(Jesus) is the only Truth. If we follow Christ, we need to make sure that we follow and adhere to his Word.
But then you appear to be saying that you and only you can interpret what the truth in the bible happens to be.

You're human. You can be wrong. Why is it so farfetched to believe that there are multiple ways of believing, and none is incorrect? Do you have any idea how many different branches of Christianity exist in the world? I think you're nitpicking when you say that just because they don't believe exactly as you believe, it means they're not Christians.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 978,995 times
Reputation: 301
Wow, this thread's taken off since I was here this morning.


Quote:
Most Catholic doctrines are either directly born of scripture or derived. Since the early Church didn't have a Bible, the gospel was, of course, spread orally. Also, the early Church (includes Apostles and the disciples of the Apostles) baptized babies, believed that the Eucharist was the actual body and blood of Christ.
I would like to see proof that the Apostles baptized babies. I believe they baptized those who converted, adults, who were old enough to understand.

Quote:
And herein lies part of the problem: Protestant-Christians sling stuff at us, yet Catholics don't sling stuff at Protestant-Christians
.

Catholics and Protestants alike have slung stuff at each other for centuries. They have killed, persecuted and tortured others simply because they held a different faith. Northern Ireland is just one example of this. I would like to know where Christs teachings were in all this?
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